The Python vs. the 586--a bit of history

U

UncleEd

New member
When the 586 came out, it became a direct competitor of the Python which was getting very pricey, even by 1980s dollars.

Ever notice how dimensionally alike they are and that the same leather can generally be used as well as speedloaders?

It was a definitive move by Smith to move in on the Python market.

Reportedly Smith had designs for the 586 during the 1970s but didn't introduce it because it wouldn't have been the gentlemanly thing to do in its rivalry with Colt.

Then the gloves came off. The 586 was introduced.

I remember at the time an Arlington Heights, IL, LEO was looking to buy a new Python, the one he'd been carrying was getting pretty shoddy around the edges.

At the gun store he checked with, the dealer offered him the new 586 and showed him that it indeed was practically interchangeable regarding size, leather use and speedloaders. And it was several hundred dollars cheaper.
He bought the 586 and retired his Python for good.

And so the history has gone since then. Colt continued to lose its revolver market share and finally became a non-existent entity among LEOs.

Next came the GP 100, definitely Ruger's "knockoff" of the 586 to compete directly with the Smith. Again dimensions were close to the Python.

As an aside, Ruger has always been in the fight with Smith: Just look at how fast it introduced its .44 Magnum Super Blackhawk to dampen the introduction of the Model 29.

I loved the old ads by Smith mocking Ruger with hamburger shaped like a GP and saying guns can't be compared to how much beefier they are.
 
It's interesting to hash over an speculate as to the circumstances surrounding and reasons for the introduction of new models.

But wasn't the chief reason for the introduction of the L-frames some durability issues with K-frame 357's? Whether those issues were real or perceived remains a hotly debated topic, but I digress....

Being that the Python was introduced in 1955, I'm not sure gentlemanly respect for a competitor was the reason Smith "waited" to introduce the L-frame till 1980??

I tend to think the L-frame was introduced to fill the gap between K and N frame for a very specific reason. That reason was durability with a steady diet of stout magnum ammunition like the N-framed 357's but in a bit smaller package that is a little easier to carry regularly.

Whatever the reasons, the L-frame has enjoyed undeniable success. And I don't think they are slowing down any time soon.

Although I don't own a Snake, I would like to someday. But they are cost prohibitive for me at this time. It would be nice to see Colt bring their DA revolver line back. Seems like there would be a market for it?
 
Seems like there would be a market for it?
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DW did just that with their 715 at a price point they need to break even or even make a (aghast) profit, which will make them tend to linger on shelves, I would imagine.

While I would hope they sell like hotcakes to a starving man, price point to make a new startup line profitable would be what? (Not that Colt ever worried about profits) I wonder if $1.5K ish 6 shot products would move in todays America at a volume worth keeping the line going?

It might. I really don't know.

Now, if Colt would open a good gunsmith school on their old wheelguns... ;)

Python... for target bullseye in .38 originally, wasn't it? Supposed to kill the S&W K38 (14) crowd in competition? Full lugged and vented for serious competitors use...(all that mirage off the barrel at the range builds up donchaknow?) :rolleyes:

L Frame. To keep forcing cones intact and compete with Colt maybe?

Dunno. Fun to speculate

But they was pretty.
 
I shoot against a Python quite often,,,

I shoot against a Python quite often,,,
A range acquaintance has one as his only revolver.

So when we go shooting we always take other guns,,,
But his Python and my 686 always go.

Other than the feel of his Pachmayers against my wood target grips,,,
The two guns seem so similar that they could pass for each other in the dark.

I just wish mine had a cool name like his does,,,
Naming their great guns after snakes,,
What a stroke of marketing genius.

So I have started calling my gun "The Mongoose",,,
Because I'm a wee better shot than him,,,
He really hates that name. :p

Aarond

.
 
Ride-Red,

Truly the 586 was created to fill the gap between the K and N frames but the point being it was given a silhouette and dimensions to mimic the Python.

The L frame could have just as easily been designed without a full lug, different dimensions but remain about the same weight as the Python to better handle hot loads.

But Smith & Wesson specifically chose to ape the Python and in effect poke a finger in Colt's eye, something that probably wouldn't be done before the 1980s.
 
Having owned both guns, the Python and the Model 586, the official name of which is "Distinguished Combat Magnum, by the way, I'll add my two cents' worth.

First of all, I've owned many Colts, New Services, M1917, Officers Model Match, etc, as well as the Python.

The very first Pythons introduced were .357 Magnums. And they were advertised as traget grade revolvers. The Python introduced the very muzzle heavy revolver for the first time. I had written Colt many times, and S&W, wanting heavier barrels, as had many other shooters. But when PPC matches became popular, the full lug barrels came into thier own. But also at the time, the double action of the S&W revolvers were considered top-notch by most DA shooters.

The use of Python barrels on S&W Model 19s became popular, and tales of split forcing cones on thes guns led to the introduction of the L-Frame. However, S&W went Colt one better and kept the long cylinder of the Model 19, so that the long 173 gr. Keith SWC bullet could be used without seating it deeper. Here is where the Model 586 cleaned the plows of both the Python and the Model 27.

In my opinion, and use, the Distinguished Combat Magnum is the best DA .357 to come out yet.

Bob Wright
 
I would disagree that the 586 was ever a "direct competitor of the Python." The 586 has a vaguely similar barrel profile but beyond that they have nothing in common and are not in the same class.

The Python is a deluxe, semi custom revolver built with much hand fitting and a top of the line finish. The 586 is a service grade revolver. They should not even be discussed in the same sentence.

The closest S&W comes to competition for the Python is the Model 27 and even it doesn't quite measure up to the deluxe fit and finish of the Colt. IME most shooters prefer the S&W trigger but the Colt is still nicer.
 
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I guess we need pictures. A couple of my Pythons. No 586 can match the fit and finish. Some prefer the cheaper service grade revolver just as some prefer a Chevy to Cadillac. That doesn't make the Chevy a nicer car, though. If the 586 does what you need a 357 revolver to do then fine. But it's still a Chevy.

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This is what the 6" Python pictured above can do. First group out of the gate with full power Magnum ammo. Yes, I did adjust the sights.

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I always thought it was just sort of a fad back then. The full lug Python barrel was "in" and the manufacturers simply responded to it.

Like vinyl tops on cars a few years before. Like slab sided barrels are now.
 
As an aside, Ruger has always been in the fight with Smith: Just look at how fast it introduced its .44 Magnum Super Blackhawk to dampen the introduction of the Model 29.
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Not so sure I agree with this point. The Model 29 was double action, swing out cylinder, able to use speed loaders and the Super Blackhawk was a single action, poke the fired rounds out one at a time and put the new ones in one at a time...they both shoot the .44 magnum round but with the major differences in the action I don't really see them in head-to-head competition.

The Model 29 took off with the Dirty Harry crowd for self defense and the Super Blackhawk always seemed to me to appeal more to the handgun hunting crowd.
 
SaxonPig

CTS-v Cadillac has a 600+ hp LS small block Chevy in it, the Northstar is dead and buried! To me it's like paying for a name plate (BMW, Mercedes, etc..) and I would bet my old 686 that a 586 would last just as long as a Python while delivering similar performance. No denying a Python is a beautiful gun, as are other Colts.
 
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The S&W 586 is what we call in my parts a "copy cat", but a darn good one.

Who doesn't love a good smooth Python? But for longevity (durability) the 586 probably wins a bit, and a good Smith is lovely.
 
I have 686's from the first run and an old Python as well. They don't use the same speed loaders, the Colt cylinder pattern is a bit smaller. One has right hand twist rifling the other is left hand twist (forget which is which but do have some cast bullets I fired out of one, recovered and fired out of the other, yeah I know but I was only 14 back then).

The Python trigger can be made the smoothest but the S&W is a stronger design.
 
GUV- The small block Chevy V-8 is maybe the best engine ever designed. But the engine is irrelevant. I'm talking the quality of fit and finish.
 
DaleA,

It's not that the Blackhawk was a mechanical match of the Model 29 but Ruger was able to field a .44 Magnum at almost the same time as Smith did its Model 29. At the time, Smith thought it was going to have a wide, wide jump on any competition. The .44 Magnum was thought to be a secret by Smith.

Look up how Bill Ruger by chance found out about the .44 Magnum.

Until the Dirty Harry craze in 1971/2, the Super Blackhawk with its then super bluing and fitting was a sportsman's delight.

And while the original design of the Super Blackhawk (three screw and transfer bar systems) has been able to hold its own over the years while the Model 29
has had to have several upgrades in its lockwork to keep it running as well.

But any way, this is but a minor side note to the topic of Python and 586.
 
Hello
I always' heard that the Introduction of the S&W model 586 was S&W's last attempt to equip Police agencies with a durable side arm wheel gun. This was about the time that Bottom Feeder's were starting to show up in the Police agencies so the 586 was not well recieved. It's L-frame design allowed Many full House Load's to be fired unlike the Lighter K-frames but weighed in less than the Previous Highway Patrolman Models. Regards, Hammer It
 
My Uncle was a in the Border Patrol and had a Gov issued Security Six. He bought his own M66 Smith because he didn't like the weight of the Ruger, how many in law enforcement would have shunned the 586/686 for the same reason?
 
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