You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
The problem with no-knocks and "informants"
- Thread starter Jack 99
- Start date
Ed Brunner
New member
I don't knock you or your profession. I am saying that in order for evidence to be used against ANY accused person it musy have been legally obtained. Is this not correct?
------------------
Better days to be,
Ed
------------------
Better days to be,
Ed
It has been said before; but it bears repeating:
The rights of the many are being violated for the sake of catching a few BGs.
Not to mention that the BGs are now not the only ones we have to fear as each of us try to live in the relative safety(?) of our homes.
Now I'm beginning to understand why many fellow TFLers go armed in their own castle with a firearm strategically placed in every room.
This is something I'm having to reconsider, because these 'incidents' are now happening more often. And they certainly aren't restricted to just the 'big city'.
What other choice is there...?
------------------
...defend the 2nd., it protects us all.
No fate but what we make...
The rights of the many are being violated for the sake of catching a few BGs.
Not to mention that the BGs are now not the only ones we have to fear as each of us try to live in the relative safety(?) of our homes.
Now I'm beginning to understand why many fellow TFLers go armed in their own castle with a firearm strategically placed in every room.
This is something I'm having to reconsider, because these 'incidents' are now happening more often. And they certainly aren't restricted to just the 'big city'.
What other choice is there...?
------------------
...defend the 2nd., it protects us all.
No fate but what we make...
Jeff Thomas
New member
"The war on drugs is a big joke, and it's full of hypocrisy," said Craig Silverman, a former Denver prosecutor who opposed Ritter in the last election and is now a defense attorney. "I'm not blaming anyone in particular, but when you have that violent intrusion on people's homes with so little results, you have to ask why."
LawDog, mrat and other LEO's, perhaps you should take a breath as well. I understand that your natural tendency is to see any discussion of no-knocks as an attack on LEO's. But, please, try for a moment to drop your natural defensive reaction.
As citizens, we have to look at this from a 'package' standpoint. You are, whether you like it or not, part of a system. You can do your job 'by the book', and with great professionalism and courage. But, that does us all little good if that job should not have been done in the first place.
You should have a great personal interest in the truth of this debate. Isn't the travesty of a fellow LEO's death or injury made that much worse if the results are so meager?
Again, I just don't see the logic of killing and injuring LEO's, citizens and innocent bystanders so we can bust someone for having such a small amount of drugs and other 'contraband' that they could flush it all down the toilet (as one example). And then, to have such a meager result in court as well?
IMHO, this situation is not only morally wrong, it appears to be foolish policy. I fail to see how that critique can be seen as anti-LEO by our good friends on this forum.
Take care out there guys. Please, don't endanger yourselves for this kind of foolishness.
Regards from AZ
LawDog, mrat and other LEO's, perhaps you should take a breath as well. I understand that your natural tendency is to see any discussion of no-knocks as an attack on LEO's. But, please, try for a moment to drop your natural defensive reaction.
As citizens, we have to look at this from a 'package' standpoint. You are, whether you like it or not, part of a system. You can do your job 'by the book', and with great professionalism and courage. But, that does us all little good if that job should not have been done in the first place.
You should have a great personal interest in the truth of this debate. Isn't the travesty of a fellow LEO's death or injury made that much worse if the results are so meager?
Again, I just don't see the logic of killing and injuring LEO's, citizens and innocent bystanders so we can bust someone for having such a small amount of drugs and other 'contraband' that they could flush it all down the toilet (as one example). And then, to have such a meager result in court as well?
IMHO, this situation is not only morally wrong, it appears to be foolish policy. I fail to see how that critique can be seen as anti-LEO by our good friends on this forum.
Take care out there guys. Please, don't endanger yourselves for this kind of foolishness.
Regards from AZ
Points;
1-Become a leo and see what it about,Put yourself in a persons shoes who gets his door broken down in the middle of the night by black clad masked people.What would you do in that case.
2-Source AZ republic.1999 186 leos died.83 died by gunfire.Percentages very low by allmost any occupational standards.The last source I read was police was about 23rd percentage wise in deaths.
3-You are not the last bastion of defence between citizens and chaos as you are taught in police acadamy.
Bob
1-Become a leo and see what it about,Put yourself in a persons shoes who gets his door broken down in the middle of the night by black clad masked people.What would you do in that case.
2-Source AZ republic.1999 186 leos died.83 died by gunfire.Percentages very low by allmost any occupational standards.The last source I read was police was about 23rd percentage wise in deaths.
3-You are not the last bastion of defence between citizens and chaos as you are taught in police acadamy.
Bob
How very sad that we have a state where all search warrants are " no knock "
Carry a sidearm while working at many chain quickie marts and you get fired, carry any weapon and you get fired. The graveyard shift market worker gets killed so the perp has time to get away before anybody calls in, and to eliminate the possibility of identification ; not because the clerk resisted.
Most cops I know are not " Rambo " types either, but one out of a thousand is too many.
It is good that compelling evidence is required in SOME areas prior to getting a no knock arrest warrent. If the evidence is so compelling tho, why not execute the arrest on safer turf. Parking lot, driveway etc. Then execute the search warrent after the arrest, that works in some places and a lot less exposure to lethal danger for all concerned.
Unfortunately there are areas in this country where the MO of the gangbangers is to wear dark clothing, crash the door of a house, lots of noise to intimidate the residents, rob and harm, then scram. The citizen who defends the sanctity of his home does not have time to determine if the door crashers are bad guys or LEOs/bounty hunters who have gotten lost or are responding to a bad tip. To many, anyone who forcibly enters without an invitation is a threat and a target.
Does anybody out there have the numbers re LEOs who were shot by other LEOs?
Sam
Carry a sidearm while working at many chain quickie marts and you get fired, carry any weapon and you get fired. The graveyard shift market worker gets killed so the perp has time to get away before anybody calls in, and to eliminate the possibility of identification ; not because the clerk resisted.
Most cops I know are not " Rambo " types either, but one out of a thousand is too many.
It is good that compelling evidence is required in SOME areas prior to getting a no knock arrest warrent. If the evidence is so compelling tho, why not execute the arrest on safer turf. Parking lot, driveway etc. Then execute the search warrent after the arrest, that works in some places and a lot less exposure to lethal danger for all concerned.
Unfortunately there are areas in this country where the MO of the gangbangers is to wear dark clothing, crash the door of a house, lots of noise to intimidate the residents, rob and harm, then scram. The citizen who defends the sanctity of his home does not have time to determine if the door crashers are bad guys or LEOs/bounty hunters who have gotten lost or are responding to a bad tip. To many, anyone who forcibly enters without an invitation is a threat and a target.
Does anybody out there have the numbers re LEOs who were shot by other LEOs?
Sam