The Perfect Outdoorsmans Compact Handgun

D

DougB

New member
I'm a little frustrated that no one makes the handgun I want, so I'm curious to find out if it would appeal to anyone but me. Since I'm "designing" it myself, I'm going to throw in some nice-to-have features as well. Here goes:

Caliber: Interchangeable barrels in 9mm, .40, and .357Sig. A 10mm version would be best of all, but might require a larger and heavier gun.

Capacity: 10 in magazine.

Size: Compact (like Keltec P11, Taurus Millennium, or Kahr compacts).

Weight: Light (12-14 oz or so with empty mag).

Material: Polymer Frame with Titanium & Stainless parts.

Finish: Most durable available on any non-titanium parts (tennifer or hard chrome?).

Action: Traditional Double Action (i.e. - you can cock it for a nice light trigger pull). User-convertible to "double-action-only" for those who want this (not me). This is where the Kel-tecs, etc. miss the boat for me - I don't want DAO.

Sights: Compact but fully-adjustable. Maybe with a laser available in the guide rod (IF it could be very light and unobtrusive).

Safety: Compact thumb safety (like the Taurus, but easier to operate), user-removable for those who don't want it. Built-in, totally unobtrusive key lock.

Magazines: Compatible with some common and inexpensive full-capacity magazines (S&W, CZ, or Beretta?).

As you can see, I basically want a Kel-tec or Taurus, but with greater range and accuracy potential (for plinking, small game hunting, etc.), and a few extra safety and durability features. This would probably be a very good CCW gun as well, but I'd want it more to carry in a small fanny pack or pocket when hiking, fishing, etc. There are so many "me too" very compact DAO pistols now, it seems like someone would make one with single-action capability. I'd buy it. Anyone else?

Doug
 
There are some inherent limitations in frame size for larger calibers.

If you're going to do a 10 shot in 40 S&W, you're going to get a Kel Tec in size and width. You might skinny it up with a single stack 5 shot config (5+1).

I like the titanium block idea -- like Kel Tec's aluminum block. But a titanium slide will have problems with cycle timing.

You could do a single/double action with a long initial pull and no safety -- safety linkage adds parts and weight.

It'd be great to be able to toss a 30 rd 9mm "stick" from an IntraTec or similar in it, but that's a stretch.

I'd settle for a single stack, light, 40 S&W that was skinny, short, and not too deep in the grip.
 
Save for the Safe-Action, which you don't like, you describe the Glock 27/33. Have you tried the 3.5 lbs or the heavier trigger springs? This might you around to Glocks.

------------------
"Get yourself a Lorcin and lose that nickel plated sissy pistol."
 
You've got a lot different idea of what the ideal outdoor gun should be than I do.

A 22 auto with 2 spare mags and a hundred rounds ammo for *hiking AND plinking*. Or a 22 revolver.

For protection from wild *animals* ( besides the alleged humanoid kind ) 41, 44, 45 super, 45 colt and larger.

For general rambling, a target ( ala kit gun ) sighted Chief's with 3" lugged barrel and smooth J frame wood squarebutt grips. A couple rounds of snake shot, and 3 lead HP's. This setup with the right ammo will take on gallon milk jugs to at least a hundred yards, and can be kept concealed discretely.

Just my two cents.
 
A Smith & Wesson Mountain Gun in .44 Magnum.

You asked for "The Perfect Outdoorsman's Compact Handgun"- then you went on to describe some kind of CCW Titanio-glock-omatic-stop-n-rob-robber-stopper.

A nice stainless steel 4" revolver is what you need.

From what you describe, however, it seems that you go hiking and fishing in high-crime urban centers at night.

Good luck!
 
A real outdoors man type gun should be in stainless and big enough of what is outdoors. I mean out in the real woods, a rifle would be the best but I do carry a smith .41 mag at times. I end up thinking that I should have my AK most of the time unless it is just a day trip,now thats a outdoors trail gun. Tough, dirt proof,rust resistant and should be hell on bears or butt heads too. But I cheat and go by horse though. :) :) 4 inch barrel on the sixgun is what I vote for too. :) I aint shooting anything at 12 oz. bigger than a .25 auto,ouch to the max in 10mm or even .380. :)
 
OK, depends on the mode of "outdoors" I'm working in.

When I backpack for three or four nights in the summer my pack runs 20 lbs. You don't get your gear down to that sort of weight packing a K-Frame and a half box of ammo. And if you're packing that light there's a good chance you're not hiking in ******* country.
I pack a Kel Tec P-32 and seven rounds. (And a bear bell if appropriate.)

Truck/car camping is a different story. If I can get there in a car/truck there's a reasonable chance jerks can get there too. Besides, when weight's not a problem I like to carry a small arsenal and do some shooting.

Sea kayaking is in between. There are boaters, but not a lot of jerks. Space is limited somewhat. Recreational shooting on waterways is often unlawful, so "plinking" is not always a consideration. Keeping the gun dry in a saltwater environment is a necessity. Sometimes an SKS, or 870, most often one of the handguns -- .357, 45 ACP.

Ya gotta match the gear to the expedition.

Tecolote: It's Tommy Lee Jones in "US Marshal", and the quote is, "Get yourself a Glock and lose the nickle plated sissy stuff."

But I've seen Glocks described as "boring bullet dispensers for unimaginative cops who aren't fussy about firearms." I owned one for about six weeks. I hated it.
 
My idea of an outdoors gun is a Ruger Blackhawk in .357 stainless. Loaded very hot, with hardcast 158grain at 1,500fps which these can handle, you *can* actually stop a bear with a "low headshot" as I've heard of based on tests. Somebody around here has a whole website on bear defense...basically the forehead isn't a forehead, it's a solid bone anchor for the jaw muscles, you can split it with 30-06 but anything less is iffy including .44Mag. Everybody's big mistake is to aim for that forehead. But the right shot with something decent will drill clean through the snout or through the eye/cheek and into the brain...the AK Highway Patrol did tests with roadkill grizzly skulls, found that the "low brain shot" can be done with hot 9mm or .38+P even all the way through the snout/sinus cavities, never mind .357.

And you've got lots of other choices in highly accurate small/medium game loads like .38 target wadcutters, personal defense and pellet shot for very small game, whatever.

Plus it's highly reliable, good accuracy esp. with a bit of tuning.

Jim
 
Its fun reading the comments. I guess there's no avoiding the recommendations to carry a large heavy revolver. Just for the record, I usually carry a light 4" .357 for this purpose, but my last trip, it wouldn't fit where I wanted to carry (and needed to conceal) it, so I wound up with my SW99 9mm, which did fit. In some cases, I would (and do) carry up to a .44 magnum in the out-of-doors (especially if a horse is doing most of the carrying).

But when I want to drown some worms along a trout stream, or canoe down a river, or go backpacking, I'm not willing to carry a couple of extra pounds of steel and some giant fanny pack totally dedicated to my sidearm. I want a light, compact, durable, reasonably accurate, reasonably powerful handgun such as I've described (not necessarily with all the extras I threw in for fun).

I will admit that the Glock 29 tempts me. It isn't too much larger and heavier than a Kel-tec, and packs 10 rounds of 10mm. But every time I hold one, try as I might, I just can't like the feel or look of the thing. I hate having to talk myself into spending $600 on a handgun I don't really like. And the light trigger and lack of a safety worry me on a gun I may sometimes carry loose in a fanny pack or pocket. It wouldn't take much of a careless grab to fire the thing.

Anyway, my core frustration is that all these compact pistols are DAO. The main complaint I hear (and have) about them is the trigger. So why doesn't someone make one in traditional double action for those of us who would like to use it for something other than shooting bad guys from 10 feet away?

Doug
 
Rusty S,
I pretty much agree with your reasoning, except that I'm looking to carry one handgun, not three. I do sometimes carry a .22 (especially when fishing, or when I plan to do quite a bit of plinking).

Your 3" .38 revolver is probably closest to my all purpose gun, but it is larger, at least as heavy, holds about 1/2 the ammo, and is less powerful than a .40. If you mean a .357, then there goes the weight and size again. The single action trigger would be a big plus, but that's my gripe - why doesn't someone make a lightweight semi-auto with this capability?

Doug
 
Doug,
Take a look at the Ruger SP101 .357 with a three inch barrel. I have one in the 2 1/4, they are great guns.
 
I agree with Tecolote the way to go is a Glock 27. When you buy it give it time to get used to the action. With two after market barrels you will be able to shoot the three calibers you wish. I would probably go with Bar-sto barrels as I am most familiar with them.

Then I would then have a shopping trip. What would I buy? 1) two Glock 26 magazines. 2) a Glock 19 high capacity magazine with an A&G adapter for use in a Glock 26. 3) a Glock 23 high capacity magazine with another A&G adapter for use with the 40 S&W and 357 Sig. Why the A&G adapter? It makes these small pistols feel like a Glock 19/23. 4) two Pierce magazine finger extentions for the 10 round Glock 26/27 magazines. 5) Night Sights.

Regards,

Richard
 
But every time I hold one, try as I might, I just can't like the feel or look of the thing.

Have you actually fired a Glock 29? They might feel one way in the shop, but with a loaded mag the balance changes. They soak up
recoil like nothing else.

I hate having to talk myself into spending $600 on a handgun I don't really like.

That's really expensive. You should be able to find one for under $550 at a show.

And the light trigger and lack of a safety worry me on a gun I may sometimes carry loose in a fanny pack or pocket.

I don't recommend carrying any pistol or revolver loose in a bag. Too many htings can go wrong. Glocks have three safeties, so unless you pull the trigger all the way they aren't going off. I suggest a holster above all. In fact you can rig an expensive nylon holster onto a backpack, this would make for safer carry and easier access.

It wouldn't take much of a careless grab to fire the thing.

This could happen with any pistol unless you carry chamber empty. See above.

------------------
"Get yourself a Lorcin and lose that nickel plated sissy pistol."
 
What about the new Taurus titanium .357 magnum? I don't have one, but I think they are 7 shot and under 20 oz. unloaded.
 
Another thing you can do is have a Colt Officers ACP coverted to shoot 10mm. the pirce will be aboput $1500 though. Again Glock 29, with a pierce grip extender.:col:

------------------
"Millions for defense, not one dime for tribute!"
 
m60.jpg

A S&W Model 60 with 3" barrel and adjustable sights. 5 shots of .357 Magnum - small, light, accurate, cancelable, deadly. Down load to subsonic wadcutters to head shoot rabbits out to 35 yds, causes less meat damage than a high velocity .22RF. Up load for bear & 2 legged vermin, snake shot for rattlers, tracers for signaling (an often forgotten but important reason to carry a handgun in the wild). Slip it into Uncle Mikes flap holster, or throw it in a fanny pack, and you won't even know it's there.... till ya need it. -- Kernel
 
DougB, you got the point, and I don't want to carry 3 guns either.

Kernel's picture of the stainless 357 equalivalent of my 3" blued 38 is probably the closest all around for my taste as you can load 180 grain loads for penetration in animals, 125 full power hp for antipersonnel, and wadcutters. I'm not rushing out to buy one.

If I want to go plinking, then I go plinking. At the range or someplace in the desert I can drive to - with a rifle and shotgun in the truck too.

The largest predator in valleys on the eastern side of the sierras is usually cougar. Where I live. So I don't need to shoot thru heavy bone, which is the province of the heavy calibers.

I don't carry my 3" though. It wouldn't conceal as easy as my airweight bodyguard. I don't scare the ecosheeple, and predators don't like porcupines in sheep's clothing.
 
I don't care for SIGs but in .357 they look to fit your specs the closest (228, 229, SigPro?). I am really starting to like the .357 round. Almost as much as I don't care for it's daddy the .40. My Glock 35 is set up with a 6" .357 barrel and has light recoil and ballistics that meet or exceed .357 Mag loads in the 125 gr weight. You'd lose some power to a shorter barrel but still... damn. Good stuff.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top