The Perception of Gun Owners

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All law abiding gun owners know that drugs and guns don’t go together. Once you are using illicit drugs, you cannot have a gun in your possession.

Seems that this is gone off track, unless the public perceives gun owners as rampant illicit drug users.

The biggest perception I see, as living near political centers that tend to be in favor of gun control: is that gun owners are being lumped in with conservatives, kkk, white nationalists and other bigots.
We need to somehow unhitch from the notion that gun rights are a right wing ideal. Gun ownership is everyone’s right to exercise.
 
Let's assume it's all tied to drug abuse. How would you fix that? Drug testing as part of a background check?
I think some are assuming the drug use was illicit or illegal..'some' of these guys were diagnosed as mentally ill, were prescribed the meds..and then bought a gun(s) and committed mayhem.
In addition, 'some' are political zealots..which drives them to buy a gun(s), and commit mayhem..and these aren't necessarily 'insane' nor on a spectrum of drugs.
 
I think some are assuming the drug use was illicit or illegal..'some' of these guys were diagnosed as mentally ill, were prescribed the meds..and then bought a gun(s) and committed mayhem

I agree. Many people with mental illness self-medicate with illegal drugs or abuse legal prescriptions. And as an increasing number of states de-criminalize marijuana it is possible for many gun owners to fail federal gun legislation without breaking other laws. If the increased potency of pot led to mass shootings then WA, CO, and other states would look like Syria now.

In addition a significant number of young people are legally prescribed drugs in response to ADHD types of challenges. There might be a connection to drugs and mass shootings. But I'd imagine that the bulk of these losers also drove cars to the scene, and that connection is just as hard to build answers around.
 
I suspect that marijuana may cause negligence, but I highly doubt that it leads to violence. I live in WA, lots of people I know around here use it, even some coworkers... they mainly giggle for a bit, destroy some junk food, chill on the couch then fall asleep only to wake up in the morning bright eyed and bushy tailed.
 
Let's assume it's all tied to drug abuse. How would you fix that? Drug testing as part of a background check?

We know that won't "fix" it. Drug tests are easily compromised. Besides I don't believe it is all tied to drug abuse. As I said before terrorism is a separate issue, especially in the US where the nutters self deploy after reading some idiotic lies on the internet. Terrorism, particularly Islamic terrorism where drugs are generally prohibited often, although not always, the actor steers clear. But Islamic terrorism is pretty rare in the US. In the last two terror attacks where the socialist greenie white supremacist guy attacked El Paso and the Antifa guy attacked Dayton neither had such restrictions so of course they were both drug users. If this is a rising trend then we have a rocky road ahead.

Some small amount of it is domestic violence related that spiraled out of control but often the domestic abuser is a heavy drug user as well. The Sutherland Springs, Texas church shooter is a typical example of that.

I agree. Many people with mental illness self-medicate with illegal drugs or abuse legal prescriptions.

That is a huge, well documented problem.

And as an increasing number of states de-criminalize marijuana it is possible for many gun owners to fail federal gun legislation without breaking other laws. If the increased potency of pot led to mass shootings then WA, CO, and other states would look like Syria now.

Except a lot of the drugs produced in those states are shipped illegally to other states. The exact amount is unknown because the activity is illegal; but I am willing to bet it is North of the majority of the production. The USPS is a big enabler. The weed shows up in all 50 states.

Due to increase availability and increased potency Marijuana use has exploded nationwide in the last few years in the US. So have mass shooting events. Again you might say "coincidence"; I say correlation.

How to fix it?

The short answer is I don't know.

The long answer is some strategies may help. If a link between the drugs and shootings can be demonstrated in court than this would open up lawsuits for product liability that would end production or greatly restrict usage of many of these drugs domestically and we could go back to 1980 when such events were a very rare occurrence (not accounting for illegal imports). Drug companies have some of the best lawyers in the world and pot dispensaries some of the best propagandists and hackers who use their talents to suppress such information so I am thinking the odds are not good.

We would have to rebuild a huge mental health system to warehouse the mentally ill. Currently prisons and jails are filling that role which is why our prisons and jails are overflowing, they are full of mentally ill people who might not otherwise be there if we had a facility to house them. When we got rid of the mental health facilities in the US the problem didn't go away it merely moved. However, being a danger to themselves and others won't keep people in jail. When their time is up, they get released until the next time. Eventually they do something illegal enough that they die in the process or get locked up for life anyway.

The idea of treating mentally ill people with psychiatric drugs and keeping them within the community has turned out to be an abysmal failure for millions. For some it works but for many others it does not. When it fails we don't have anywhere to put people but jails and prisons.

I just realized I completely hijacked this thread from it's original intent. Apologies to the OP. I believe however this is a discussion that needs to had and trying to have it with non-gun owners is a form of insanity. Traditional gun owners tend to be a bit more practical, logical and open to new ideas that run counter to MSM narrative.
 
I suspect that marijuana may cause negligence, but I highly doubt that it leads to violence. I live in WA, lots of people I know around here use it, even some coworkers... they mainly giggle for a bit, destroy some junk food, chill on the couch then fall asleep only to wake up in the morning bright eyed and bushy tailed.

I agree. I live in an artists town where some of my "gray ponytail" friends claim marijuana enhances their creativity. While alcohol tends to promote aggressive behavior (think speeding, bar fights, spousal abuse, etc.), marijuana seems to make people mellow and more thoughtful. I have never seen anyone on marijuana involved in a fight, or for that matter even an argument. As to the higher potency of modern marijuana, the smokers I have known say they smoke less than they did in the old days as opposed to getting higher.
 
Due to increase availability and increased potency Marijuana use has exploded nationwide in the last few years in the US. So have mass shooting events. Again you might say "coincidence"; I say correlation.

And I say correlation is not causation.

Related, yes, but the cause? I just don't see that. I also disagree with your contention that legal marijuana growers are shipping the majority of their crops to the rest of the country via the Post office.

I also have issues with the idea of proving a link and product liability would turn us back 40 years to when these things didn't happen.

There is nothing on earth that cannot be abused so as to harm someone, and that includes love and protectiveness. I reject the idea that a free will choice to abuse something makes that thing responsible for the abuse and the harm it causes.

Now, how do you convince people trained their entire lives to believe what they see on a screen, that we are NOT the people doing evil??. Because they are constantly being told by people on those screens that we are.
 
I also disagree with your contention that legal marijuana growers are shipping the majority of their crops to the rest of the country via the Post office.

I also reject this idea that you came up with on your own.


I also have issues with the idea of proving a link and product liability would turn us back 40 years to when these things didn't happen.

And this one.

Now, how do you convince people trained their entire lives to believe what they see on a screen, that we are NOT the people doing evil??. Because they are constantly being told by people on those screens that we are.

When you say "We" do you mean "people with guns"? Because if so the people on the screens are correct. People with guns are responsible for 100% of all shootings. I am merely pointing out that over 90% of those with the guns doing the shootings are also on drugs. Most of the rest are straight up mentally ill, have a chemical imbalance or are otherwise disconnected from reality.

Like I said before there is a step you are missing here.
 
Due to increase availability and increased potency Marijuana use has exploded nationwide in the last few years in the US. So have mass shooting events. Again you might say "coincidence"; I say correlation.

That old film "Reefer Madness" is campy fun that people laugh at for good reason. Pot is not the problem. You seem to feel that it is, but you provide no evidence of that. More laws that govern personal behavior is not the solution.

... this would open up lawsuits for product liability that would end production or greatly restrict usage of many of these drugs domestically and we could go back to 1980 when such events were a very rare occurrence (not accounting for illegal imports). Drug companies have some of the best lawyers in the world and pot dispensaries some of the best propagandists and hackers who use their talents to suppress such information so I am thinking the odds are not good.

Yeah, they sold Oxycontin like candy and created an opioid epidemic. No one but street dealers went to jail for that. That seems like a far bigger problem than pot.

I'd be much more willing to buy into your argument if it were based on the increase of legally prescribed drugs and not the increase in marijuana potency. In this changing marijuana regulatory environment I don't see how alienating marijuana users helps. I certainly don't see any connection between weed and mass shootings.

There is a rapidly growing number of legal marijuana producers and sellers who need to protect their profits and themselves. There is also a growing number of responsible gun owners who have to lie on 4437 forms despite not having broken any other laws.
 
While gun policy loosely intersects with drugs policy with regards to question 11(e), we don't need to get into the weeds with the latter. We're drifting a bit here.
 
Mainah said:
There is a rapidly growing number of legal marijuana producers and sellers who need to protect their profits and themselves. There is also a growing number of responsible gun owners who have to lie on 4437 forms despite not having broken any other laws.
Sorry, but no one "has to" lie on a 4473. If you're using illegal substances, don't buy a new gun. If you want to legally buy guns, don't use illegal substances.

I may be crazy, but I'm not stupid. It doesn't get much simpler.
 
Sorry, but no one "has to" lie on a 4473. If you're using illegal substances, don't buy a new gun. If you want to legally buy guns, don't use illegal substances.

Well that depends on how you define illegal? Sounds like a stupid question but is it ? Marijuana is legal in California so one could smoke a joint then fill out there 4473 and believe they are answering honestly when saying they don’t use illegal drugs .

It may have always been this way but it does seem more and more states are passing laws that flat out contradict federal law . From imagination to some towns saying they are a 2nd amendment sanctuary .
 
Metal god said:
....Marijuana is legal in California so one could smoke a joint then fill out there 4473 and believe they are answering honestly when saying they don’t use illegal drugs . ...

Only if he's not paying attention. See question 11e on the 4473 (emphasis in original):
...Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or
decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside
.....

Metal god said:
...it does seem more and more states are passing laws that flat out contradict federal law....

It's not a matter of state law contradicting federal law. State law can be different form federal law. Something could be illegal under federal law and not under state law, and vice versa.

We've been through all this before. A user of marijuana, even if legal under state law, is an unlawfully user of a controlled substance and may not legally, under federal law, possess a gun or ammunition.
 
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