The Patriot -- I Gotta See This Movie!

Oscar

New member
Every review I've read (since they're in the "mainline" media, they're mostly negative :( ) reinforces my desire to see this movie. Here's a welcome review by Sam Francis of the other reviewers:
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/samfrancis/sf000711.shtml

'The Patriot' teaches forgotten lessons the left doesn't like

By an amazing coincidence, Mel Gibson's epic about the American Revolution, "The Patriot," just happened to open in theaters on Independence Day weekend. And cynics complain that Americans don't take national holidays seriously anymore! Most viewers may regard the film as one more wallow in fantasy and stale popcorn, but among the nation's literati it's actually incited something resembling thought. Yet, the resemblance is not too close. The immediate reaction to "The Patriot" was denunciation for a scene in which the hero's preteen sons are given flintlock rifles by their dad (Gibson) and spontaneously conscripted to help massacre a contingent of British troops about to hang their brother.

Children aren't supposed to have guns, you see. You are not supposed to have guns either. Even if you do have guns, you're not supposed to give them to kids. And even if you give them to kids, you're supposed to tell them not to shoot anything, especially people, even if they're government troops about to hang your son. What you're supposed to do in situations like this is dial 911 and wait for the cops. The film manages to violate every one of these rules in the space of about ten minutes.

This line of criticism came a cropper when Gibson and the film's producers just refused to change anything in the script, but it should have told them what was in store for them and their movie. Is it too much to ask late 20th century critics to grasp that people who lived 200 years ago did not necessarily harbor quite the same superstitions that we do? Maybe back then they believed in witchcraft and were against premarital sex and all that sort of stuff, but even they didn't believe in gun control. Nevertheless, gun control is exactly what the first line of attack against "The Patriot" demanded the movie preach.

But undoubtedly the dumbest thing said about the film (maybe the dumbest thing ever said about anything) comes from Jonathan Foreman, reviewing "The Patriot" for salon.com. Foreman found it objectionable because "'The Patriot' presents a deeply sentimental cult of the family, casts unusually Aryan-looking heroes and avoids any democratic or political context in its portrayal of the Revolutionary War."

Not only is the cast entirely too Aryan for Foreman but the scene with the preteen sharpshooters is "the equivalent of the Werewolf boy-soldiers that the Third Reich was thought to have recruited from the Hitler Youth to carry out guerrilla attacks against the invading Allies." Well, now, it ought to be clear what Gibson and his "German director Roland Emmerich" are up to. "It's hard not to wonder if the filmmakers have some kind of subconscious agenda," Foreman mutters. "The Patriot" won't win any Academy Awards, but Foreman and his own agenda ought to get a Pulitzer for paranoia.

By now, you are probably catching the drift of the objections leveled at the movie. Not only is it politically incorrect on gun control but also on race (by leaving out all the glorious ethnic diversity of 18th century South Carolina), and other matters as well. There's no sex in the movie and no slavery. Gibson, a prosperous farmer, employs free black laborers.

Actually, even though it's an obvious evasion of the slavery issue, this is not inaccurate. According to Eugene Genovese, the leading historian of American slavery, there were no small number of free black farm laborers in colonial America. Their number dwindled after the Revolution.

But if there aren't any slaves, there isn't any feminism either. The female characters depict strong women, but not as men. They don't shoot people or fight in battles or save the male characters, but they do protect homes and children and face mortal dangers bravely. Religion -- meaning Christianity -- is also positively portrayed, with characters gathering in churches and a clergyman who actually bears arms against the foe.

A reviewer in National Review complains that Gibson's character "does not fight for principle or country -- at least not at first -- but for vengeance. The relevant political institution is not South Carolina, but the family. This seems like a pretty serious cop-out for a film called 'The Patriot.'"

But maybe that's the point that few people today (especially at National Review) can catch -- that patriotism begins with the family and works its way up, that nobody really fights for abstractions like "democracy" or "human rights" or "equality" but to protect hearth and home, and that when hearth and home are trampled and torched, you take revenge.

A people steeped in those principles probably doesn't need much else, and it won't have many enemies who can conquer it. If Americans have forgotten them, they can now go see "The Patriot" and remember what their forebears really fought for.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oscar:
A reviewer in National Review complains that Gibson's character "does not fight for principle or country -- at least not at first -- but for vengeance. The relevant political institution is not South Carolina, but the family. This seems like a pretty serious cop-out for a film called 'The Patriot.'"
[/quote]

Well bowl me over! No kidding?!? Any military leader could tell you that. When it comes to cruch time on the front lines soldiers don't fight for God, country, and apple pie - they fight for their buddy in the foxhole with them, and they fight so that they might see another day, and incidentally, their families.



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"...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
Luke 22:36
"An armed society is a polite society."
Robert Heinlein
"Power corrupts. Absolute power - is kinda cool!"
Fred Reed
 
I saw this film twice :) And it is a must see :D Will own a copy when it comes out on video/DVD. Its a keeper ;)
P.S. I think film reviewers are full of crap. When they say they don't like a film I go see it because I know its going to be good. When they say the opposite I do the same. Just some talking head earning their keep and getting to see free movies :rolleyes: JMHO Thank you
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We preserve our freedoms by using four boxes: soap,ballot,jury, and cartridge.
Anonymous

[This message has been edited by loknload (edited July 11, 2000).]
 
What I liked best about the movie was that it didn't feature people spouting ideals as they were making mush out of the British, because liberty is not an abstraction. Being free to pursue one's happiness and determine one's course without anyone's permission is about as unabstract as it gets.
 
Not much else to say, except for...

GO SEE IT!!! NOW!!!


"Aim small, miss small."

Later,
Chris

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"TV what do I see, tell me who to believe, what's the use of autonomy when a button does it all??" - Incubus, Idiot Box
 
I just got back from seeing it this very minute.

It helped to remind me of something I already knew.
War is pain and fear. For some it's hate, but mostly pain and fear.

This second revolution we discuss in subtle terms needs to be avoided.
A lot of us talk a big talk. But how can you count on someone to lift the sword when he won't lift the pen.

Those of you who aren't participating in the campaign to fight the antis need to snap out of it post haste.


I wonder how this movie was allowed to be released.
 
"Stop taxing our tea and give...me...my...FREEDOM!!!"

Sorry, I couldn't resist. :)

I saw this somewhere, and would give due credit if I could remember who posted and where.

It is a must see, as far as I'm concerned. We need more movies like it.
 
This brings up a point about the militia system which our founders prefered... why? because if the cause was not just... they would not fight...



------------------
Richard

The debate is not about guns,
but rather who has the ultimate power to rule,
the People or Government.
RKBA!
 
I saw it this weekend. It is probably one of the most powerful movies I have ever seen. This includes: Saving Private Ryan, Braveheart, etc. Mel Gibson and the producer Roland Emmerich deserve a great deal of credit for bringing this story to the screen, especially in this day and age. It is obvious why the liberals don't like this movie. It celebrates everything they abhor: Patriotism, Duty, Honor, Family, and Religion. I urge everyone to go and see it, and take your family and friends. It is but a small episode in our history but it shows how expensive liberty is, and what a debt we owe all the people who have given their all so that we may live in this great country.
 
Here's another review and my favorite quote from it:

“The Patriot is right-wing hogwash bathed in an olde-timey golden glow,” writes Arion Berger of the Washington City Paper. “Now the disgruntled, home-schooling, SUV-buying, pro-militia-but-cautious-suburban-family-values working man has a movie to call his own.”

I think Arion inadvertently omitted "beer-guzzling", "chain-saw owning" "bigoted" and "homophobic" -- among others.


War of words over ‘The Patriot’

Hollywood’s horror over conservative family values

By John H. Fund
MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR

July 4 — In 1996, when director Roland Emmerich made his last Fourth of July spectacular, “Independence Day,” both presidential candidates endorsed his film. But that was science fiction. His latest film, “The Patriot,” is about the founding of our nation and some of it rubs politically correct elites so raw that they slapped an “R” rating on it for portraying children defending themselves with guns.

MANY CRITICS have tried to dismiss the epic as simplistic, tub-thumping patriotic drivel. “There isn’t an idea in it that will stand up to thoughtful scrutiny,” huffs PBS critic Roger Ebert. Other critics claim “The Patriot” lacks heart. “There is no majesty, no feeling here: it’s all FX and costuming,” says Stephen Hunter of the Washington Post. This is bizarre for a film that dwells on the human impact of war on family and loved ones.

Still other critics correctly see “Patriot” star Mel Gibson as the next John Wayne, a new embodiment of American individualism, and they don’t like it one bit. “The Patriot is right-wing hogwash bathed in an olde-timey golden glow,” writes Arion Berger of the Washington City Paper. “Now the disgruntled, home-schooling, SUV-buying, pro-militia-but-cautious-suburban-family-values working man has a movie to call his own.” This about a film that barely mentions the tax revolt at the heart of the American Revolution.

Time out. Now we know in part why so few Revolutionary War feature films have been made - less than a dozen compared to 407 on World War II and even 72 on Vietnam. It’s not just the strange costuming or a reluctance to make the Brits the bad guys.

“What you’ve got is folks that Hollywood would think are ‘right-wing Christian gun nuts,’” says film critic Michael Medved. Indeed, Mark Gordon, who produced the acclaimed “Saving Private Ryan,” admits that the Motion Picture Assn. Of America was upset by the scene of an 11-year-old firing a musket after British soldiers had killed one of his brothers. It led to the film’s “R” rating. “We really wanted to get a PG-13 for “The Patriot,’ but there was no way,” a Sony Pictures executive told the Los Angeles Times. “The ratings board is very sensitive to any connection between violence and children, and here it’s intrinsic to the story. Take it out, and the whole movie falls apart.”

Washington City Paper film critic Screenwriter Robert Rodat, who wrote “Saving Private Ryan,” defends the scene by pointing out the film immediately shifts to the boy telling his father (the Mel Gibson character) that he’s glad he killed a soldier: “The look of dread on Mel’s face shows us the repercussions of their actions. What scares me is violence that is realistically depicted with no repercussions.” Indeed, there have been many films depicting children involved in combat that haven’t earned an “R” rating. The Mel Gibson character resembles the Virginia farmer played by James Stewart who tries to save his family from the Civil War in “Shenandoah.” Films showing Jewish children taking up arms against Nazis in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising have been hailed. So too have those depicting children confronting policemen enforcing apartheid in South Africa. A double standard here shouldn’t apply to depicting war on the home front.

NO BEEF WITH THE BRITS

The British do have a proper beef with some elements of the film. Even though this is the first movie project the Smithsonian Institution has ever consulted on, dramatic license takes over at times. The most memorable atrocity - the burning of a church with the congregation inside - can’t be found in Revolutionary history. But the British are not portrayed as Nazis, as hysterical reviews in British papers have claimed. Jeremy Isaacs, the British actor who plays the Darth Vader-like Colonel Tavington, notes that in the film, “My superiors are very unhappy with the way I’m behaving and my men balk at carrying out the orders I give them. So the notion that the British are represented badly is nonsense. I am the bad guy.”

PERSONAL FREEDOM
It’s easy to read too much into “The Patriot,” which most people will go see as a crowd-pleasing adventure. But unlike many popcorn dramas, there is meat on its bones. “This film is about personal freedom - which many people take for granted today,” says Mel Gibson. Its essential message is the same one that Thomas Paine told the colonists about in his pamphlet “Common Sense.” It comes from the Israel of the Bible: Sooner or later, the king unchecked will come for your sons.

That should be a universal message, untied to any ideology, since tyrants have come in all hues, shapes and sizes throughout history. It’s time for a cease fire on the politics of “The Patriot,” and for critics to appreciate it on its own terms and not through the lens of their own contemporary sensitivities.

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John H. Fund is a member of the Wall Street Journal editorial board and a regular contributor to MSNBC on the Internet.
 
Movie Critics are pathetic people. They HAVE to pick apart a great movie just to pretend to be sophisticated and uppity, to feel smart or clever. I dislike them as a whole. One of the few groups of people I am biggoted against.
Every - EVERY - movie critic I have heard has all bashed the patriot. Yet coming out of the theatre I have only heard words of awe.

Critics can bite me.
 
Just as the Green Berets was vilafied buy the press (they reviewed the war NOT the movie) the critics will have the same problem with The Patriot in that we the paying public WILL go see it anyway.
 
What I saw in "Patriot".

I saw children who took their rifles safely with them for proper use as a matter of daily habit.

I saw a man torn to shreds by contradictory moral imperatives.

Slavery was irrelevant to the point of the movie but it was represented nonetheless, as was racism -- "What are *you* going to do with freedom?" The fact that Martin was not a slaveholder and that honorable treatment of slaves and freedmen predominated should be taken to the film's credit. It is because of other matters that liberal advocates such as Spike Lee grasp at straws in their attempt to malign this film. (Imagine what they would have said had it been otherwise.) BTW there were many more freedmen and even well educated black professionals earlier in our history than is often understood. (Nothing excuses enslavement of another human, and neither does the fact of American slavery excuse the lies and propaganda of those who find it a convenient lever to enhance their own power over others.)

I saw the horrid tactics -- stand at 25 - 50 yards and take pot shots at each other without any attempt at individual preservation -- that grew from the European class system of that time in which aristocratic generals fought one another using their men with no more concern for the soldier's survival than they would have had for a chess piece if they were playing that game instead. BTW Europe's class system is a cornerstone of Liberalism.

I saw the brutality, which naturally accompanies a war against a civilian population. Atrocities occur in all wars and a British colonel (Banstre Tarleton, I believe) did indeed conduct a war of atrocity against civilian noncombatants in South Carolina.

Whether there was a church burning as depicted in the movie has been questioned. There seems to be no such on record, but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The author covered this point when the dragoon colonel said, [as best I recall] "The victory will justify us. (Does this sound like, "The ends justify the means"? An idea not originated by, but vital to Communist doctrine.) This will be forgotten." Maybe it was. Even if such an event never did happen in South Carolina in 1778 -1780, a church *was* burned, and its occupants, many of them women and children, were burned alive in Texas in 1993. The movie is relevant to *today*. The representation of the young boy (Thomas?) being shot in the back is more representative of the Ruby Ridge incident than the War of Independence as well.

I saw the first flag waving, patriotic American movie since "The Green Berets."

I saw the militia properly defined and represented. I saw the militiaman carrying our flag riding beside the regular army commander and their foreign ally.

In short, I saw a well-crafted fable for America in the year 2000. The good news is Americans have spent 65.5 million dollars to see it in the past two weeks despite feeble publicity and ubiquitous attempts to malign it.

The last few lines of the film contain the words: "I will keep my promise ... I'll come back." One may hope the spirit of Benjamin Martin *will* return to America. Soon.

Bentley

"Liberty has never come from government. Liberty has always come from the subjects of government. The history of liberty is the history of resistance." -- Woodrow Wilson - 1912
 
>>I saw the horrid tactics -- stand at 25 - 50 yards and take pot shots at each other without any attempt at individual preservation -- that grew from the European class system of that time in which aristocratic generals fought one another using their men with no more concern for the soldier's survival than they would have had for a chess piece if they were playing that game instead. BTW Europe's class system is a cornerstone of Liberalism.<<

Just a minor quibble here...the method of fighting used DID have a practical origin. The muskets used in fighting to that point were NOT rifled and thus were horribly inaccurate at any sort of long range. This meant the most efficient way to use them on the enemy was to use mass volley fire at very close ranges. Yes, it was damn hard on the troops, but it was the only way to use muskets in combat unless you were dug into a defensive fortification...and then you were inviting the enemy to pound at you with cannon.
 
Any movie that pisses off the brits, the anti's and the socialist is a must see. I haven't seen it yet, but after my move, first thing on my list. God, I love pissing off the brits.... NO, YOU CAN'T HAVE US BACK!

USP45usp

Oh, BTW brits, hows your locks? Don't worry about us Americans, we can still shoot the criminal... you can... maybe make em a ham and cheese. You should have grown some balls and learned but that is another story. sorry for the flame, just don't respect those who follow and are afraid to lead or are afraid to stand up for themselves.
 
I went to see it last wednesday. Tomorrow, I'm taking my mother to see it, also the anti artist type across tht street, if I can talk her into it.
crankshaft
nralife, goa, jpfo, fcsa, smvfm
 
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