It's been a while since this was kicked around, but I guess I've been fielding a query on this every two days, average. There's desperate times ahead, and desperate people around us. So...
Here's some opinions on this complex subject. Note that none are Writ on a Tablet of Stone by a Divine Finger.
The first consideration is the use environment. It's not so much rural/urban.It's what's likely to be hit by a stray or overpenetrative round. Some farmhouses still have exposed propane or heating oil tanks, sure wouldn't want a high penetration round going through those. I'm sure y'all can think of other probs.Remember, this is HD ammo, not riot suppression/outside ammo.
And, rounds that underpenetrate are turning over ALL their energy to the target.Back to this later.
Second consideration is the shooter. Sure, most of us here are Manly Men who love many ft/lbs of recoil caressing our shoulder. But we all live with folks who are not. And these spouses, SOs, offspring may need to shoot something, sometime, very, very much. Mrs McC stands 5" and a skosh and loathes shotguns. She does OK with handguns, but if I knew then what I do now, I'd have started her off better. 20-20 hindsight....
And even us Manly Men get faster repeat shots with lighter loads, something to think about before the home invasion occurs.
The lighter loads also work well for practice, tho "Duty" loads should always be part of a session. For example, shoot up a box of dove and quail loads for practice, and then use the "Serious" ammo that's been in your weapon since the last session. Once assured it works, clean the weapon and reload with fresh "Serious" ammo.
OTOH, the heavy, full power 00 loads and similar are excellent defense loads if the above criteria are met. The More Is Better Principle does apply some of the time.
The RR loads may be a happy medium. But, like most compromises, it handles the middle of the bell curve.Extreme circumstances call for extreme remedies.
Slugs have very little application for HD, some use for action outside. It's your call here also.
FYI, my HD 870 has a couple in the Side Saddle, just in case.
So here's what I think would be close to the optimum HD load in 12 ga, a specialty round very good for inside defensive work by a variety of shooters of various levels of expertise and strength. Note that nobody makes this round now, but someone sureasheck should....
First, let's note that lighter loads are easier to shoot. SO, let's drop the payload weight to 3/4 oz and the speed to 1000 FPS. This is very light for a shotshell,but does anyone think a 73 caliber projectile with about twice the weight of a 45 ACP hardball bullet at somewhat faster velocity would be ineffective? Free Recoil is about 9 ft/lbs, IIRC, compared to 30 some for a 9 pellet full house 00 load.
Second,while the most common shell length today is a nominal 2 3/4 inch to allow for a larger payload than we're talking, and more powder. It would be easy to make a load of 2-2 1/2" that fulfills the mission. One could then either have the same number of rounds stored on the magazine with less compression on the spring, or maybe even squeeze in one more round. This should still be long enough to feed OK through repeaters.
Third, one could "Tailor" penetration by shot size. A range of something like 4s to 9s would give different penetration levels, and one could pick the level one wants.Or, maybe 5 00. Ideally, the load would stop just inside the back surface of the target for maximum energy transfer.
And my personal solution? The HD 870 here is 6+1. I load the mag with 5, and kept cruiser ready with an empty chamber, safety on, and action locked closed. The mag has a pair of #8 trap loads first to be chambered,then Estate SWAT 00. The Side Saddle has more 00, and a pair of slugs. Total, 2 trap loads, 6 00, 2 slugs. More 00 is nearby.
Questions, comments?....
Here's some opinions on this complex subject. Note that none are Writ on a Tablet of Stone by a Divine Finger.
The first consideration is the use environment. It's not so much rural/urban.It's what's likely to be hit by a stray or overpenetrative round. Some farmhouses still have exposed propane or heating oil tanks, sure wouldn't want a high penetration round going through those. I'm sure y'all can think of other probs.Remember, this is HD ammo, not riot suppression/outside ammo.
And, rounds that underpenetrate are turning over ALL their energy to the target.Back to this later.
Second consideration is the shooter. Sure, most of us here are Manly Men who love many ft/lbs of recoil caressing our shoulder. But we all live with folks who are not. And these spouses, SOs, offspring may need to shoot something, sometime, very, very much. Mrs McC stands 5" and a skosh and loathes shotguns. She does OK with handguns, but if I knew then what I do now, I'd have started her off better. 20-20 hindsight....
And even us Manly Men get faster repeat shots with lighter loads, something to think about before the home invasion occurs.
The lighter loads also work well for practice, tho "Duty" loads should always be part of a session. For example, shoot up a box of dove and quail loads for practice, and then use the "Serious" ammo that's been in your weapon since the last session. Once assured it works, clean the weapon and reload with fresh "Serious" ammo.
OTOH, the heavy, full power 00 loads and similar are excellent defense loads if the above criteria are met. The More Is Better Principle does apply some of the time.
The RR loads may be a happy medium. But, like most compromises, it handles the middle of the bell curve.Extreme circumstances call for extreme remedies.
Slugs have very little application for HD, some use for action outside. It's your call here also.
FYI, my HD 870 has a couple in the Side Saddle, just in case.
So here's what I think would be close to the optimum HD load in 12 ga, a specialty round very good for inside defensive work by a variety of shooters of various levels of expertise and strength. Note that nobody makes this round now, but someone sureasheck should....
First, let's note that lighter loads are easier to shoot. SO, let's drop the payload weight to 3/4 oz and the speed to 1000 FPS. This is very light for a shotshell,but does anyone think a 73 caliber projectile with about twice the weight of a 45 ACP hardball bullet at somewhat faster velocity would be ineffective? Free Recoil is about 9 ft/lbs, IIRC, compared to 30 some for a 9 pellet full house 00 load.
Second,while the most common shell length today is a nominal 2 3/4 inch to allow for a larger payload than we're talking, and more powder. It would be easy to make a load of 2-2 1/2" that fulfills the mission. One could then either have the same number of rounds stored on the magazine with less compression on the spring, or maybe even squeeze in one more round. This should still be long enough to feed OK through repeaters.
Third, one could "Tailor" penetration by shot size. A range of something like 4s to 9s would give different penetration levels, and one could pick the level one wants.Or, maybe 5 00. Ideally, the load would stop just inside the back surface of the target for maximum energy transfer.
And my personal solution? The HD 870 here is 6+1. I load the mag with 5, and kept cruiser ready with an empty chamber, safety on, and action locked closed. The mag has a pair of #8 trap loads first to be chambered,then Estate SWAT 00. The Side Saddle has more 00, and a pair of slugs. Total, 2 trap loads, 6 00, 2 slugs. More 00 is nearby.
Questions, comments?....
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It's an old savage, but I use it for a couple reasons. First off, I don't have to worry about a magazine spring getting weak from leabing it loaded. It's like a loaded revolver. It never gets tired. The other reason is that when i open the chamber and drop the barrel, the spring in there is so stout that it kicks my spent shells back a minimum of three feet over my shoulder. That leaves plenty of room to shove a new shell in.