the best we can hope for is a Trump 2nd term followed as soon as possible by criminal indictments at the top of the NRA. this will allow the NRA to depose of the corruption at the top and rebuild before the leftist take office in 2025.
The NRA Mess Explained
- Thread starter Aguila Blanca
- Start date
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Don't forget that the NY Attorney General is not just seeking the removal from office of Wayne LaPierre and several other officers and directors of the NRA, she has asked the court to disband the NRA. If she succeeds in that action, there won't be any organization to rebuild.JERRYS. said:
This is why her action is (IMHO) unprecedented. If the president and some directors of some large bank or mega corporation were caught embezzling large sums of money from the bank or company, it's unlikely that Ms. James would be seeking to dissolve the bank or the mega corp. She would be looking to put the perpetrators behind bars and let the bank or the company go on about its business.
Quite obviously, then, her objective is not to protect the members from the excesses of WLP & Co., her objective is to torpedo the NRA. That's wrong and, in a sane world, a judge wouldn't allow it. But ... this is New York, and New York hates GUNZ!
TruthTellers
New member
The NRA and a bank are not structured the same tho as the members of a bank don't vote for who they want to be board members, who in turn vote for the high ranking officers and executives.
The argument the NY AG can make is the voting membership knowingly went along with the corruption (i.e. complicit) or are so incompetent (negligent) that they don't know criminal misuse of an organizations funds when it's staring them right in the face. That with all the letters and warnings about the by laws changes were known well in advance and members did nothing to reject them thus making it so people like WLP were nearly impossible to remove from their position.
Thus, the entire NRA must go.
And... she may be right in that argument, but it's going to take years of appeals before it gets resolved.
One thing I do know is I would not be sending ANY money to the NRA right now because it's very possible the organization may be dissolved completely in a few years and all that money with it.
Need I say any more?
The argument the NY AG can make is the voting membership knowingly went along with the corruption (i.e. complicit) or are so incompetent (negligent) that they don't know criminal misuse of an organizations funds when it's staring them right in the face. That with all the letters and warnings about the by laws changes were known well in advance and members did nothing to reject them thus making it so people like WLP were nearly impossible to remove from their position.
Thus, the entire NRA must go.
And... she may be right in that argument, but it's going to take years of appeals before it gets resolved.
One thing I do know is I would not be sending ANY money to the NRA right now because it's very possible the organization may be dissolved completely in a few years and all that money with it.
Need I say any more?
this is why Trump 2020 is a must, because the NRA future will be going to the SCOTUS, even (if we're lucky) WLP and Co. are indicted.Don't forget that the NY Attorney General is not just seeking the removal from office of Wayne LaPierre and several other officers and directors of the NRA, she has asked the court to disband the NRA. If she succeeds in that action, there won't be any organization to rebuild.
This is why her action is (IMHO) unprecedented. If the president and some directors of some large bank or mega corporation were caught embezzling large sums of money from the bank or company, it's unlikely that Ms. James would be seeking to dissolve the bank or the mega corp. She would be looking to put the perpetrators behind bars and let the bank or the company go on about its business.
Quite obviously, then, her objective is not to protect the members from the excesses of WLP & Co., her objective is to torpedo the NRA. That's wrong and, in a sane world, a judge wouldn't allow it. But ... this is New York, and New York hates GUNZ!
This action against a tax exempt corporation chartered in the state of New York is not without precedent.
The New York attorney general was responsible for the dissolution of the Trump Foundation in late 2019. Facing serious charges, executive/s agreed to dissolve. Remaining Trump Foundation assets were distributed to charities and Trump was fined 2 million dollars.
Back to the NRA: The judge and his/her assistants are studying the depositions as we speak. Methinks the NRA will not be dissolved. Most likely the gang of four will be heavily fined and maybe jailed. The judge will likely appoint an overseer to carry out his/her instructions for re-organization of the NRA.
Nowhere in the 164 page summons does the attorney general blame NRA members for this dumpster fire.
The present financial situation at the NRA is dire. All property is mortgaged to the hilt and the credit line is history. Most employees have been laid off. Lawyers are costing the NRA 2-3 million dollars per month.
The New York attorney general was responsible for the dissolution of the Trump Foundation in late 2019. Facing serious charges, executive/s agreed to dissolve. Remaining Trump Foundation assets were distributed to charities and Trump was fined 2 million dollars.
Back to the NRA: The judge and his/her assistants are studying the depositions as we speak. Methinks the NRA will not be dissolved. Most likely the gang of four will be heavily fined and maybe jailed. The judge will likely appoint an overseer to carry out his/her instructions for re-organization of the NRA.
Nowhere in the 164 page summons does the attorney general blame NRA members for this dumpster fire.
The present financial situation at the NRA is dire. All property is mortgaged to the hilt and the credit line is history. Most employees have been laid off. Lawyers are costing the NRA 2-3 million dollars per month.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
I forgot about that, but I don't consider it a parallel. The Trump Foundation was not a membership organization. The NRA is.thallub said:
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
thallub said:
Honestly, that’s like a worse result than just dissolving the NRA. Especially since the rules changes have made it near impossible to remove the executive of the NRA and the New York AG isn’t going to appoint anyone who is even remotely sympathetic to the Heller[/] view on the 2A.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
What leads you to suppose that the judge is reading the depositions? Hs there been a trial/gearing yet? Have any of the depositions been entered into evidence?thallub said:
What leads you to think the judge will leave the NRA intact and appoint an overseer? Starting on page 161 of the complaint ( https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/final_nra_summons_complaint_08.06.20.pdf ), the AG's "prayer for relief" repeatedly asks for dissolution of the NRA, and she argues (speciously, IMHO) that dissolution would be in the best interests of the membership. What makes you think a judge in New York would leave the organization intact?
True, but she nonetheless asks that the NRA be dissolved, and she tells the court that dissolution would be in the best interests of the members.
This is not a trial in the conventional sense. It's a "you failed to comply with New York state rules concerning the operation of charities. Now we desire to punish your organization for that failure".
It boggles my mind that the NRA failed to hire someone familiar with New York and District of Columbia laws governing charities.
The District of Columbia attorney general in his case against the tax exempt NRA Foundation never asked the judge to dissolve that organization.
https://oag.dc.gov/sites/default/files/2020-08/NRA-Foundation-Complaint-Redacted.pdf
Suppose for one minute that the NRA is dissolved and the NRA Foundation survives.
It boggles my mind that the NRA failed to hire someone familiar with New York and District of Columbia laws governing charities.
The District of Columbia attorney general in his case against the tax exempt NRA Foundation never asked the judge to dissolve that organization.
https://oag.dc.gov/sites/default/files/2020-08/NRA-Foundation-Complaint-Redacted.pdf
Suppose for one minute that the NRA is dissolved and the NRA Foundation survives.
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Aguila Blanca
Staff
It's not a Perry Mason style criminal trial but the NRA and the individual, named defendants are certainly entitled to their day in court, so either there will be dueling rounds of briefs, or there will be a hearing (which is a trial, just not a criminal trial), or both. The judge isn't going to just accept the AG's complaint and make a ruling based on that alone.thallub said:
Aguila Blanca
Staff
I understand that. That's why the judge isn't likely to issue a ruling based solely on the complaint, the NRA's response to the complaint, and the depositions. There will almost certainly be a hearing -- which is a trial. Both sides will get to present their best arguments orally, submit any new evidence they may have, and possibly examine witnesses.thallub said:
It's not all political. But the New York AG's demand that the NRA be dissolved certainly is.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Agreed.natman said:
Last night I read through several pages of Ms. James' complaint, the parts spelling out the alleged misdeeds of LaPierre & Co. It's pretty compelling. This isn't a case of "Where there's smoke there must be fire." The specific acts that are enumerated aren't smoke, they ARE the fire. And I have no doubt that there are many more acts that the State of New York is aware of that may be brought out at trial.
Considering the way the inner clique has arranged the by-laws to make it virtually impossible for the membership to have any say in how their organization is run, I don't see what the voting members of the NRA can possibly accomplish. We could try to mount a recall petition to oust LaPierre and his cronies but, given the way the by-laws have set up the recall process, the logistics are daunting. And, since the Secretary who has to certify the petition is one of the people we need to remove, I don't see a petition going anywhere other than the waste basket.Tony Z said:
This is why I suggested investigating whether the members can intervene in the NY case against LaPierre & Co. The members' position, if we can intervene, would be "Yes, State of NY, these people violated your laws and played fast and loose with our money and our organization. Thank you for bringing it out in the open, but Mr. Judge please don't dissolve our organization and punish 5 million members for the actions of a half dozen or so officials. Please kick them out, require them to pay us restitution, and give us back our organization."
Aguila Blanca
Staff
We could also ask the court to rescind the 2017 by-laws changes -- that would be part of giving the organization back to the membership.
I suspect that changing the bylaws would result in the desired change if prison terms don't.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
I believe this is actually a civil lawsuit, not a criminal charge, so prison for the [alleged] malfactors isn't on the radar in any event. And sending LaPierre & Co. to prison would not make it any easier for the rank-and-file members to elect new leadership. Getting the court to rescind the by-laws changes (if the court has that power -- I don't know about that) would be a good first step.natman said: