The NEXT Generation -- a slightly different rant on kids.

No doubt that there are great kids and nowhere near it kids. I don't remember NOT working - hayfields, corn patch, cotton, cattle pasture - wherever Daddy said go. When I was 14, we were standing in the drive and he says, "BTW, Billy Don is going to pick you up in the morning about 4AM."
"What for, " I asked.
Dad says, "you're going to help him."
"Doing what?"
"I don't know."
At 4AM the next morning began my 2 year career working on a bread truck. But can you imagine my surprise when Billy Don PAID ME? I had NEVER in my life gotten paid to do a job.
The point here is - have you met many kids today who will do a real job for nothing?

As for the 'Sagas of the Drive-thru', we just have to learn to speak more than one language. Notice that the cash registers in those places don't have numbers on them, but pictures! Remember turning the page, seeing the picture: A - Apple B - Ball :D
 
I think the first symptoms of the problems we see with today's youth started showing up a good 20 years ago - when retail clerks were routinely being hired who couldn't make change. How was this addressed? Touch-screen CRT's on the cash register, that actually tell the clerk how many dollar bills, quarters, dimes, nickles, and pennies to return. And it's still a challenge for some!!! This is a symptom of dumbed-down schools and two-career households, with uninvolved parents.

Of course, every generation thinks the younger is a bunch of slackers - I remember chuckling over a cartoon of a Neolithic family huddled around a campfire, with the father saying "Kids have it too easy - when I was their age, I didn't have a fire to stare into! I had to use my imagination." :)

Of greater concern is a generation being raised on welfare by gang-bangers and druggies. They've "gotten away" with so much for so long, they don't have any empathy whatsoever for other human beings - there's no "connection." I believe the term that's been coined for this group is "feral youth."

[This message has been edited by HankB (edited July 31, 2000).]
 
Apple a Day, Congrats on the soon new addition to your family. Send e-mail to me FUD@keepandbeararms.com
 
From my experiences at Ars Technica, I'd say that the younger generation is anything but stupid and lazy. The big problem from what I can discern is that they are simply lacking quite heavily in role models. Their parents all work too hard, their aunts and uncles often live nowhere near them, their teachers are idiots, the cops treat them like criminals, unless they are jocks, and then they get treated real great by the cops(at least around here, no offense to the non-idiot LEOs here). Kids have one big mentor, television, and now to some degree the internet. Few people that I see in my generation that use the internet really do much actual learning with it and much actual thoughtful discussion. Most of them spend 18 hours a day talking about girls/guys on Instant Messenger and watching TV that fills them with sensationalist hype. Don't blame the media though, it's hardly their fault alone. If you look in history, the media has had some truly respectable heroes and intellectuals among their ranks. The problem, as with the government, is that the media draws from the general population for it's labor pool, meaning they get a lot of the people who have grown up in the post-Vietnam culture of America, which is quite frankly, pathetic. I think Vietnam was a cause and a symptom that fueled this. Vietnam was a great betrayal of public trust, a great abuse of power, and a great lesson for the people of this country that you should never lose faith in your country, but you should always hold a short leash on those you elect to run it. After Vietnam people started questioning things, and the hippie movement gained more steam as a result of that war. I think maybe people had gotten into the habit of being discontent and protesting everything, so much so that they began to neglect important things, such as repairing the social damage of that war. I think the biggest thing Vietnam destroyed was America's sense of itself, our unity. It attacked out belief in each other as a nation, but the reaction has largely been a foolish one. People have forgotten what really caused Vietnam even if they are still being affected by it. People now want to give more and more power to the government and less and less to the people. They are creating the same circumstances that lead up to Vietnam, only this time around they want to marginalize anyone that might not support the regime.

This is the problem with hippies and why I hate them so much. They aren't willing to solve their own problems, or often aren't even able to, so they seek for someone to do it for them, and they resent individuals who can do things for themselves. They got active and protested the war, then most of them probably didn't even bother voting half the time. They basically spent the late 60s/early 70s fighting against the government having too much power, and now they are fighting against the concept of the people having any power. They are a group of poeple who have no idea what they want or where they stand, and for whatever reason mainstream media, and a good share of the democratic party, has latched on to thier message of peace and hope, but have failed to discern there is no cohesive or logical plan behind any of their message.

To pinpoint what's wrong with this country, or what's wrong with this generation is very hard. It is a broad range of things, but Vietnam was the core around which these things wound, and they have formed a magnet to draw in more problems, and even to create new ones. Look at the timeframes of social breakdown, look at them and learn from it, then the best you can do for this generation is to teach them why that is. Knowledge truly is power.


-ps if any of this only half made sense please forgive me as I am extremely tired

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I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
 
There are not as many bad kids as there are bad parents.

Getting back to the fast-food example, whoever started the thread is right to a certain extent. And it gets worse, because the effect of the way these places are managed to cater to idiots is that no one who could do a good job or wants to do a good job stays around very long. I could have kept working at Hardee's until a couple of days before school started, but once I knew I had a job teaching this fall, I couldn't face that place anymore. It's just too obvious that no one intends to do a good job and no one cares that they kept me from doing a good job either.

OTOH, Hardee's in general is going down the tubes. They were bought out last year and the rumor is that the new owners fired about a third of the managers in this region and cut the pay of the others with no notice. A week ago, my managers were told their vacations have been cut--even the ones that have already been approved and scheduled for this year! Those fancy computers don't work, and no one cares--they just muddle through. Cooks treat special order requests as high privilege, kind of "extras" that they add because they're nice people--in other words, if it's right, be happy, and if it's wrong, well, what did you expect? They made a special effort for you and it's not their faults if it didn't work out for some reason. Everything that goes wrong just "didn't work for some reason."
In short, if you showed up thinking "I don't like this job or this stupid uniform but I'm going to do a great job anyway," you're in the wrong business. Those around you are not interested in doing a great job. They're interested in getting a paycheck for as little investment of work as possible.

Whether this is a generational thing or a fast-food thing, I don't know. We had two retirees working there, one of whom was one of my favorites because she was the only cook who got upset if the order was wrong and one who was about as worthless as the younger folks.

Anybody else read "The Feel-Good Curriculum?" It dovetails pretty well with our conversation here, written by a lady who taught a college course for student-teachers and was struck by the way the students phrased their arguments about the grades they recieved:
"I never get C's."
"I always get A's."
"I deserve an A."
"I should get an A."
"You can't give me this grade!"

The author says she started investigating the self-esteem revolution in teaching after this experience. I've been thinking along the same lines since going through a teacher-education program at a respected small liberal-artts college, so it caught my eye. Bottom line: It is now more important that a child HAVE high self-esteem at all times than that the child do anything to EARN high self-esteem.
 
In defense of us GenXers..

I can most certainly agree that there are plenty who lack any bit of respect or worth ethic.

In the same light, there are those of us who happen to bust our arses on a daily basis. AND then there are those (like my girlfriend) who are down-right workaholics. Or lunitics. You won't find me attending class in the morning.. sleeping through the day till my evening job and then a third-shift job only to start the cycle all over again. *sigh*
 
The thing that startles me is that it is not just the kids these days. It extends to adults as well......in nearly every area.
In example the people at my bank. They would all be right at home wearing a paper hat and some are in their 30's and 40's.
To distingish who is in managment we could place the words "Vice President" on some of the paper hats, "Loan Officer" on others and so on........
Sure it would be expensive due to the cost of the hats and a new specialy trained employee at every branch to remind them to bring their hats to work.

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Gunslinger
 
In defense of (some) kids...

I taught 15 kids how to shoot yesterday, on a Ruger Mk-II, Rossi pump, and a single-shot Remington. Their ages ranged from 4 :eek: to 13. Every single one was alert, intelligent, and safer than most adults I see at the shop.

A very small ray of sunshine in an otherwise thunderstorm-dark landscape.
 
Okay, here's my scary story. My lab mate in grad school left when he got a teaching position at the local high school. He was SO excited!! And we were all so happy for him. It was his dream to teach, and he seemed to have all the right stuff to do it.

I saw him in November, so about 1/2 of a semester into the school year and it was like night and day. He was so disillusioned that it broke my heart. Here are two short stories as to what took away his dreams:

1. To start a conversation in one of his classes, and to get to know the kids in general, he went around and asked all of them what they wanted to do upon graduating high school. Now, there were the students that said that they planned on going on to college or get a job, but there were girls who answered that they were looking forward to having babies and getting married to their boyfriends--honest!! And there was one kid who said to earn money he was going to rob banks. My friend pointed out that was a risky way to earn a living--what if you get caught and put in jail? Well, the kid answered, when I get out, I'll do it again.

2. C. subbed for the gym teacher one day and while going around and taking attendance, he gave one of the kids a note and told him that when he was done with attendance he wanted an explanation. Apparently the note referred to this kid missing the last gym class and no excuse slip had ever been filled out. Well, C. came back to this kid and asked what was up and the kid kind of fluffed around a bit and hmmmed and hawwwd, finally admitted he couldn't read and didn't know what the note said that C. had given him.
 
Somebody earlier alluded to the "hippie" generation, and I think that also has some significance. I was one of those for a time, but after working 32 hours third shift to pay for the classes I was attending during the day, my ideas changed. Fast. Prior to that, my folks were paying for my schooling, and I was a classic screw-up. Making something free diminishes its value.

I do see some positives out there, though, and the parents are the key. One example is a friend of my wife's. She was a lesbian, but very much wanted a child. She left the lesbian lifestyle, got married to a man, had the baby and spends every waking minute with the little girl. The child is as bright, articulate, polite and polished as any little girl I've ever seen. The difference between her and the day-care kids is incredible.

Dick
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