The myth that owning and shooting a Machinegun is unaffordable

Full auto weapons are legal to own, but not build post '86. It's the "not legal to build" thing that makes them cost prohibitive to most.

Still, I remember 1986 to the early '90's quite well. You would think that people would have been snapping up full-autos like they were free gold! But, the reality was no one was really buying them. They barely cost any more than their semi-auto cousins. People didn't want to pay the $200 tax. Others preached that owning a registered machine gun would allow the ATF to break your door down in the middle of the night just to harass you. And, many folks complained that the process was too involved and difficult.

In the mid-80's I was just getting used to owning my first handgun and a hunting rifle. All that full-auto stuff was way over my head!
 
Full auto weapons are legal to own, but not build post '86. It's the "not legal to build" thing that makes them cost prohibitive to most
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Close, but not quite fully explaining the situation.

What the 86 law change did was to close the civilian registry. After the May 19 86 effective date, NO full auto guns, either new built or discovered antiques are allowed to be added to the civilian registry. Under the law, they CANNOT BE MADE LEGAL for private citizens to own (as functional firearms).

You can build all the new made machineguns you want (with the required licenses from the Govt), but you cannot sell them to anyone OTHER THAN the military or the police.

And those guys, aren't BUYING!!!

Especially the police, who now get free, or nearly free machineguns (M16 variants) from the military.

So, with the supply of legal guns fixed to those that were already in the civilian registry as of May 19, 1986, and a demand that has increased over the years (thanks to action movies and video games on new generations) AND adding in the fact that the existing legal guns, if shot, will wear out, and when they do, they are GONE FOREVER as a legal gun, the price has shot up way out of proportion to the built in price increase due to the $200 tax each time the gun changes ownership.

The legal full auto owners are a very SMALL percentage of gun owners, and an even smaller percentage of people at large. Some of them are not strong supporters of making machineguns less expensive and easier for "ordinary" people to own. They already have THEIR toys. And I doubt anyone really wants to see their $40,000 collectable Tommygun become a $2,000 collectible Tommygun....(or less..)

We are having a difficult enough time keeping our SEMI AUTOS, with media fueled opinion and agenda working hard against us, 24/7.

Now, is NOT a good time to try and push for a relaxation in machine gun laws. Not only is there about zero support in the general public, opening that particular can of worms is more likely to get us ADDITIONAL restrictions and increased costs (taxes) than it is to get us any relief from current restrictions.
 
Some of them are not strong supporters of making machineguns less expensive and easier for "ordinary" people to own. They already have THEIR toys. And I doubt anyone really wants to see their $40,000 collectable Tommygun become a $2,000 collectible Tommygun....
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For the record, I'm not one of them. Yes, I have my one toy, but I would gladly watch it drop in value to permit the registry to open to newly made machine guns. That's right, I would love to take that $9,000 hit in value so that everyone who wants a machine gun can afford one. I'm not ever selling mine anyway, so it doesn't matter to me if its worth $500 or $50,000.

Also, since I'm a civilian and this is a civilian gun board, for simplification, I assumed everyone knew that I was talking about civilian ownership of post-86 full-autos.
 
The list of privately owned full auto weapons has been referred to as the "civilian registry" for a long time, maybe even longer than I have been around, and that's getting up there...;)

"civilian" ownership is just a convenient way to distinguish between private, and government (police and military) arms, and is not aimed at anyone in particular.

Skans, I don't doubt YOU would. However, the underwhelming support and activism from the rest of the full auto community tells me some folks have other opinions.

I used to be a machine gun repairman for Uncle Sam. I got to play with all of ours, and some of our allies. I do really, really like them. However, I like things I can actually buy, more. (Aside from the cost, I'm in one of the states that prohibits ownership. :(
 
Sorry, but 1000 rds of ammo is a rather large investment for me. Let alone multiple 1000's of rounds.
 
Hmmm... $15,000 for a Mac 10 to $25,000 for an M16 to $40,000 for a Thompson.

Sorry, just buying the gun is out of reach for me. Couldn't afford it of the ammo was free.
 
If people think that MG ownership is out of reach, even if Hughes were repealed,
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I don't think anyone said that except you. That would have been a more solid argument. If all folks had to do was buy a FA trigger group from Brownells and drill for the autosear for a <$100 investment or buy an even cheaper lighting link, sure, lots of folks would have higher ammo costs.

Would be cheaper and better than the sliding stocks, two way triggers and other gadgets.

You can add me to the list that would accept diminished value of my full auto toys, if I were able to form 1 any new machine gun I could.

One of these would be first on the list.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c7OZoOBYc0
 
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I would love to see the MG ban repealed, but it's going to take more than hoping. It's going to take action, and no one seems willing to take the action. I've offered seed funding for various MG projects to prospective relevant partners, with the ultimate goal of repealing Hughes. No one was interested in the projects, they were only interested in the funding.
 
You can't shoot a gun you don't have. Acquiring the machinegun is the expensive part and you're talking about shooting ammunition on the cheap???

I reload my own ammo and I'll tell you that I couldn't reload enough ammo to shoot the machinegun I had using my single stage press.

The first 1500 rounds of ammo I had purchased for the gun ran though it so fast...it was one hungry beast.
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Exactly.

Purchasing the gun is the key part of being able to shoot it. If you were able to afford it initially, then feeding a machine gun is probably affordable as well. We understand what the OP meant, but realistically it is not affordable to own and shoot a machine gun.

Its like saying that owning/driving a $200,000 Lamborghini with a V12 engine is cheap because gas only costs around $2/gallon; that is only part of the equation and not the whole picture.
 
Well, I've read this thread with some interest simply because where I live, affordable or not, MG's are prohibited.

However, I will make one observation.

The idea that MG shooting is more open to all than people think is, to my mind, akin to saying that owning a Bugatti Veyron is affordable because its fuel consumption rate is closer to that of a big Merc rather than an oil-tanker.

Yet, from the little I know, (and most of that has been from MachingunTony's own mouth-watering tales of MG acquisition) it is the initial cost, not the running costs that stop 99% of shooters going any further than window shopping when it comes to MGs.

$15K of something like that for an MP5 or the like? You are into car buying territory with that.

If this were not the case, I'm sure that running an MG is doable in moderation.

After all, I could run a Bugatti if someone gave me one. Well, at least until the first service or new set of tyres...
 
Compared to what? A gopher hunter who spends an entire day popping prairie puppies compared to even the crazies who go do "tactical drills" firing hundreds of rounds at near full auto rates is kind of goofy, so I won't discuss that.

I've seen people sit at a range for hours, running ammo through their semiautos as fast as they can, one magazine after another. A full auto isn't going to make that cost anymore. it would only take another minute or two to burn through a magazine at semi auto compared to full auto.

I gave up on wanting a full auto about a century ago, and cost wasn't even part of the question. At that time I was trying to get claymore mines to keep the darned cats from pooping in my roses.
 
If all folks had to do was buy a FA trigger group from Brownells and drill for the autosear for a <$100 investment or buy an even cheaper lighting link, sure, lots of folks would have higher ammo costs.
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It wouldn't cost anything. There is absolutely no reason for most full autos to cost more. An M16 does not cost any more to make than an AR-15. In many cases manufactureers go through additional steps to convert old designs to full auto making their manufacture MORE expensive. There would only be the stamp and related NFA restrictions.

I've offered seed funding for various MG projects to prospective relevant partners, with the ultimate goal of repealing Hughes. No one was interested in the projects, they were only interested in the funding.
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None of the big players are going to get involved. First you need to find a Washingtonian(lobbyist) to spend your money. A decent one can put it together from there. Although I'm not sure a large percentage of the full auto crowd would support, my guess is it would be the wealthier ones who would get on board. The ones who can write 4 or 5 figure checks without missing a meal. Some of us normies who put our own pants on one leg at a time might even send a check in the 2-3 figure range:)
 
I would love to see the MG ban repealed, but it's going to take more than hoping. It's going to take action, and no one seems willing to take the action.
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It's not "no one" rather "not enough".

There are millions more people out there that would vote for more social programs or $15 minimum wage than the repeal of the Hughes Amendment.

Should be pretty obvious, looking at current polling data that half of the people living here don't care about gun rights in general much less machineguns.
 
I wonder how many machine guns get removed from the civilian registry every decade from a breakage that can't be repaired?

Which will come first:

a) the last worn-out registered MG receiver firing it's last shot before the final KABOOM;
b) Apes will rule over humans;
c) Large meteor hits Earth;
d) the confiscation of all remaining legal civilian-owned machine guns;
e) Our sun will turn into a Red Giant.
 
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For my part, I'll pass on the full auto. It is not an itch I care enough to scratch. For me, just the ammo is un-affordable in quantities that would make it fun with a full auto.
 
Which will come first:
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Canada has a rather elegant final solution I figure we'll eventually adopt; no inheritance transfers, and wait for a single generation to die off.

TCB

*my money's on the apes --they can dual wield M249s while on horseback!
 
barnbwt said:
Canada has a rather elegant final solution I figure we'll eventually adopt; no inheritance transfers, and wait for a single generation to die off.
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How long does it take for a corporation to die?

Most of the MG's around here are owned by corporations. Local law enforcement wouldn't sign off for many years (required for personal ownership but not for a corporation), so anyone who wanted an MG just formed a corporation.

I would imagine that if a "no inheritance" law were passed that even more MG's would be owned by corporations, and there would probably also be a lot of older MG owners selling their guns to their kids for $1 or putting them in trusts.
 
I think the no inheritance comment assumes no sales or other transfers either.

Trusts are not the same as corporations. The trust does not own its assets. The trustee does. It still needs to be transferred to the trustee.
 
I wonder how many machine guns get removed from the civilian registry every decade from a breakage that can't be repaired?
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I bet very, very few if any.

If you have one that is beyond repair. I will pay for the stamps and shipping, then post a detailed thread on how I repaired it.

It's pretty hard to do something that can't be repaired.

Even "destroyed" receivers can be made operational by someone with time, even if they have crude tools.

http://www.gunbuilds.com/38A/weld.html
 
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