Machineguntony
New member
True cost of shooting a full auto M16
I'm always trying to spread the word of responsible full auto ownership.
This morning, I was reading an article on TTAG about what people would do gun-wise, if they had unlimited money, such as winning a $500 million jackpot. I noticed a few people commenting on the cost of shooting full auto (btw, if you start thinking any amount of money is unlimited, it will eventually be gone. Ask MC Hammer, Mike Tyson, half of all lottery winners, or any professional athlete who goes broke after their careers are over).
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/09/robert-farago/desantis-gunhide-question-day-22/
I am going to try and dispel the myth that shooting full auto is expensive. My position is that it's not as expensive as people think. I'm going to talk about actually shooting the gun, not acquiring it. Cost of acquiring the gun is another issue. Let's talk about the acquisition costs at another time.
My position on shooting full auto is that it's not that expensive, especially when compared to some of the other things people do for shooting sports recreation and non-shooting sports recreation.
For purposes of this analysis, I'll consider the cost of new ammo and reloaded ammo to be the same. The reason for this treatment is that some people consider the time cost of reloading makes reloaded ammo more expensive than new ammo, even after the equipment has been amortized. I'm a reloader and I proudly have not purchased new ammo (except shot shells and 22LR) in about five years, but I can see the argument against reloading.
Here we go...
First off, you have to find plinking ammo, such as here:
http://www.bulkammo.com/rifle/bulk-.223-ammo.
Bulk 223 costs about 25 cents per round after S&H, no tax if purchased out of state.
For 1000 rounds, expect to spend about $250 average.
If the shooter wanted to put some work into it, I always get these emails from surplusammo.com announcing their 24 hour sale. For same cost, the shooter can get brass cased ammo for the same cost. If the shooter picks up his ammo and sells it on GB, the shooter can easily get $60 per thousand brass. This brings 1000 rounds down to $190.
But let's keep it at a stipulated $250 per thousand rounds.
Shooting by yourself, it's really hard to shoot 1000 rounds in a single range session on a single M16. By myself, nowadays, I usually shoot about 300-500 rounds per M16. That means, shooting new ammo, I spend about $125 per range session, maximum, with my M16.
That's not an amount that requires the shooter to be wealthy.
Compare to these shooting sports costs...
Precision rifle ammo costs about $2 per shot. I've easily shot 200 rounds on my 308 bolt gun, dinging steel targets. For magnum stuff or big stuff like 338 Lapua, $3-$6 per shot.
An afternoon of shooting clays costs about $60-$100 worth of clays and $100-$150 worth of the cheapest shot shells. Usually, this is what my friends and I spend for two to three people, so it's about $75 per person.
Shooting handguns with new ammo. Average Cabelas or Academy plinking 9mm ammo is $13 per 50. So 500 rounds would be $130.
Shooting a semi auto AR with new Cabelas or Academy ammo. $6 per 20 rounds, which is the cheapest ammo at Academy. $60 for ten boxes, 200 rounds. Most casual AR shooters do not go to Academy and search for the cheapest ammo. They'll buy the Federal or brass stuff that costs $10 per 20.
So when compared to the cost of other shooting sports, shooting full auto is either roughly the same or not that much more expensive than other shooting sports.
The myth that shooting full auto will break the bank comes from a misunderstanding of full auto ownership, often times from those who do not own full auto guns, who then imagine what it's like to own and shoot a full auto gun. I think the misunderstanding comes from the myth that full auto owners shoot their guns like this...
https://youtu.be/BSizVpfqFtw
If you shoot like that guy, yeah, you'll break the bank, but you'll also break your gun, like he did.
Also, another source of the myth, which is similar to the above, comes from the machine gun rentals. When going to a machine gun rental place, first off, they charge highly inflated prices for the machine gun experience. At most MG shoots, for 9mm SMG, it's about $1 per shot, or $30 per magazine. Rifle ammo is even more.
Secondly, then on top of that, the way they get their clients to shoot is not representative of what it's like to really own and shoot F/A rifles. They run a business selling MG rentals, and they want shooters to shoot fast and move on, so they can sell the next magazine to the next client.
You blow $30 on a magazine, at a MG rental, in less than 3 seconds. I can see why the casual shooter would think that shooting full auto would be expensive.
Owning and shooting your own M16 is a lot different.
When shooting a full auto, there's lots of other things that accompany the activity. Loading magazines takes much longer than emptying the magazines. You then chit chat with your friends. You check your targets and check your group sizes. You have to give the gun some time to cool down. Also, just like most of us don't just go to the range with one handgun or one AR, no one goes to the range with a single M16. If the M16 is your only full auto gun, then you shoot off a bolt gun or a handgun or some other accompanying firearm. Then five to 15 minutes later you go back to emptying two or three M16 magazines. Also, most M16 owners don't just mag dump the entire 30 rounds, like you would at a MG rental.
So let's figure an average range trip that includes full auto, with three other people. $150 for 500 rounds of ammo for the M16. $40 for 200 rounds of new steel cases 9mm. $50 for about 60 rounds of 308. $60 range fee for 4 people. Total is approximately $300 spread over four people, or $75 per person. That's hardly breaking the bank.
So real full auto shooting is not like the guy in the video above. It's a lot more affordable than most people think. If people think something is out of reach financially, they won't care about it. And if they don't care about it, then they won't fight/donate for it. How often have we heard people say that even if they repealed Hughes or even if I could buy a machine gun, I could never afford to feed it ammo.
For further reference, let's now compare the range trip to other entertainment activities outside of the shooting sports that millions of people enjoy.
Total cost of going to an MLB game for four people in 2016: $150
http://fortune.com/2016/04/03/mlb-ballparks-tickets/
Total cost of four people going to an NFL game in 2015: $600 ($100 per ticket average, and then parking and food and beverages).
http://www.statista.com/statistics/193595/average-ticket-price-in-the-nfl-by-team/
Average cost of four people going to the movies in 2016: approximately $70 ($9 per ticketx4, $20-$40 pop corn and sodas)
http://www.slashfilm.com/average-movie-ticket-price-2015/
Average cost for a family going to an amusement park, like Disney World: in the thousands, if you need to fly in, and in the hundreds if you live nearby and go often:
https://www.hipmunk.com/tailwind/hipmunk-travel-smackdown-disneyland-vs-disney-world/#.V9RoB-s8KK0
My favorite activity outside of shooting, skiing: varies, but in the hundreds if you live close and buy a season ticket and don't need to fly in; but in the thousands per three day ski trip. Skiing is way way more expensive than shooting full auto.
It's ok if someone doesn't like shooting full auto or if they think full auto is overrated. No one has to like or enjoy every shooting discipline. But full auto gets the unwarranted rap that it's unaffordable, so this unfairly colors many new shooters judgment on this discipline of the shooting sports.
In the end, it's my conclusion that...
It's a MYTH that shooting full auto is expensive.
What's your take?
I'm always trying to spread the word of responsible full auto ownership.
This morning, I was reading an article on TTAG about what people would do gun-wise, if they had unlimited money, such as winning a $500 million jackpot. I noticed a few people commenting on the cost of shooting full auto (btw, if you start thinking any amount of money is unlimited, it will eventually be gone. Ask MC Hammer, Mike Tyson, half of all lottery winners, or any professional athlete who goes broke after their careers are over).
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/09/robert-farago/desantis-gunhide-question-day-22/
I am going to try and dispel the myth that shooting full auto is expensive. My position is that it's not as expensive as people think. I'm going to talk about actually shooting the gun, not acquiring it. Cost of acquiring the gun is another issue. Let's talk about the acquisition costs at another time.
My position on shooting full auto is that it's not that expensive, especially when compared to some of the other things people do for shooting sports recreation and non-shooting sports recreation.
For purposes of this analysis, I'll consider the cost of new ammo and reloaded ammo to be the same. The reason for this treatment is that some people consider the time cost of reloading makes reloaded ammo more expensive than new ammo, even after the equipment has been amortized. I'm a reloader and I proudly have not purchased new ammo (except shot shells and 22LR) in about five years, but I can see the argument against reloading.
Here we go...
First off, you have to find plinking ammo, such as here:
http://www.bulkammo.com/rifle/bulk-.223-ammo.
Bulk 223 costs about 25 cents per round after S&H, no tax if purchased out of state.
For 1000 rounds, expect to spend about $250 average.
If the shooter wanted to put some work into it, I always get these emails from surplusammo.com announcing their 24 hour sale. For same cost, the shooter can get brass cased ammo for the same cost. If the shooter picks up his ammo and sells it on GB, the shooter can easily get $60 per thousand brass. This brings 1000 rounds down to $190.
But let's keep it at a stipulated $250 per thousand rounds.
Shooting by yourself, it's really hard to shoot 1000 rounds in a single range session on a single M16. By myself, nowadays, I usually shoot about 300-500 rounds per M16. That means, shooting new ammo, I spend about $125 per range session, maximum, with my M16.
That's not an amount that requires the shooter to be wealthy.
Compare to these shooting sports costs...
Precision rifle ammo costs about $2 per shot. I've easily shot 200 rounds on my 308 bolt gun, dinging steel targets. For magnum stuff or big stuff like 338 Lapua, $3-$6 per shot.
An afternoon of shooting clays costs about $60-$100 worth of clays and $100-$150 worth of the cheapest shot shells. Usually, this is what my friends and I spend for two to three people, so it's about $75 per person.
Shooting handguns with new ammo. Average Cabelas or Academy plinking 9mm ammo is $13 per 50. So 500 rounds would be $130.
Shooting a semi auto AR with new Cabelas or Academy ammo. $6 per 20 rounds, which is the cheapest ammo at Academy. $60 for ten boxes, 200 rounds. Most casual AR shooters do not go to Academy and search for the cheapest ammo. They'll buy the Federal or brass stuff that costs $10 per 20.
So when compared to the cost of other shooting sports, shooting full auto is either roughly the same or not that much more expensive than other shooting sports.
The myth that shooting full auto will break the bank comes from a misunderstanding of full auto ownership, often times from those who do not own full auto guns, who then imagine what it's like to own and shoot a full auto gun. I think the misunderstanding comes from the myth that full auto owners shoot their guns like this...
https://youtu.be/BSizVpfqFtw
If you shoot like that guy, yeah, you'll break the bank, but you'll also break your gun, like he did.
Also, another source of the myth, which is similar to the above, comes from the machine gun rentals. When going to a machine gun rental place, first off, they charge highly inflated prices for the machine gun experience. At most MG shoots, for 9mm SMG, it's about $1 per shot, or $30 per magazine. Rifle ammo is even more.
Secondly, then on top of that, the way they get their clients to shoot is not representative of what it's like to really own and shoot F/A rifles. They run a business selling MG rentals, and they want shooters to shoot fast and move on, so they can sell the next magazine to the next client.
You blow $30 on a magazine, at a MG rental, in less than 3 seconds. I can see why the casual shooter would think that shooting full auto would be expensive.
Owning and shooting your own M16 is a lot different.
When shooting a full auto, there's lots of other things that accompany the activity. Loading magazines takes much longer than emptying the magazines. You then chit chat with your friends. You check your targets and check your group sizes. You have to give the gun some time to cool down. Also, just like most of us don't just go to the range with one handgun or one AR, no one goes to the range with a single M16. If the M16 is your only full auto gun, then you shoot off a bolt gun or a handgun or some other accompanying firearm. Then five to 15 minutes later you go back to emptying two or three M16 magazines. Also, most M16 owners don't just mag dump the entire 30 rounds, like you would at a MG rental.
So let's figure an average range trip that includes full auto, with three other people. $150 for 500 rounds of ammo for the M16. $40 for 200 rounds of new steel cases 9mm. $50 for about 60 rounds of 308. $60 range fee for 4 people. Total is approximately $300 spread over four people, or $75 per person. That's hardly breaking the bank.
So real full auto shooting is not like the guy in the video above. It's a lot more affordable than most people think. If people think something is out of reach financially, they won't care about it. And if they don't care about it, then they won't fight/donate for it. How often have we heard people say that even if they repealed Hughes or even if I could buy a machine gun, I could never afford to feed it ammo.
For further reference, let's now compare the range trip to other entertainment activities outside of the shooting sports that millions of people enjoy.
Total cost of going to an MLB game for four people in 2016: $150
http://fortune.com/2016/04/03/mlb-ballparks-tickets/
Total cost of four people going to an NFL game in 2015: $600 ($100 per ticket average, and then parking and food and beverages).
http://www.statista.com/statistics/193595/average-ticket-price-in-the-nfl-by-team/
Average cost of four people going to the movies in 2016: approximately $70 ($9 per ticketx4, $20-$40 pop corn and sodas)
http://www.slashfilm.com/average-movie-ticket-price-2015/
Average cost for a family going to an amusement park, like Disney World: in the thousands, if you need to fly in, and in the hundreds if you live nearby and go often:
https://www.hipmunk.com/tailwind/hipmunk-travel-smackdown-disneyland-vs-disney-world/#.V9RoB-s8KK0
My favorite activity outside of shooting, skiing: varies, but in the hundreds if you live close and buy a season ticket and don't need to fly in; but in the thousands per three day ski trip. Skiing is way way more expensive than shooting full auto.
It's ok if someone doesn't like shooting full auto or if they think full auto is overrated. No one has to like or enjoy every shooting discipline. But full auto gets the unwarranted rap that it's unaffordable, so this unfairly colors many new shooters judgment on this discipline of the shooting sports.
In the end, it's my conclusion that...
It's a MYTH that shooting full auto is expensive.
What's your take?