The movie "The Jackal" real 20mm cannon or hollywood BS?

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45automan

New member
If you have seen the movie you know what i mean. Way Cool but is it real? Bruce Willis played a great part in this movie.Any interesting facts or tid bits is welcome. Are their really depleted urainium slugs out there? These would be denser than just about any other metal right? What about radiation? All in all this is on of my favorite movies and when Willis opens up with that cannon at the end WOW!!! It is the first movie i watched after setting up my new home theater last night.Life is good.
Thanks,45automan
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 45automan:
If you have seen the movie you know what i mean. Way Cool but is it real? Bruce Willis played a great part in this movie.Any interesting facts or tid bits is welcome. Are their really depleted urainium slugs out there? These would be denser than just about any other metal right? What about radiation?
[/quote]


Depleted uranium has been used for projectiles for at least 15 years (company I worked for was making them in '78). The "depleted" part means the material is practically inert as far as radiation (although we had to wear face masks and film badges due to the dust and particulate matter stemming from the machining).
The density of the metal is what makes them so effective. After being fired from a 105mm round, the penetrator (projectile) would go through most armor plate like a knife through warm butter.
 
Supposedly, according to the script, it's a 14.5MM Russian, or Yugo(??) machine gun. It does appear to be a modified M2 though.

I didn't think the shells looked big enough to be 20MM, but believable to be .50BMG.

Depleted Uranium is 60% heavier than lead, or so I'd heard some years back. I remember seeing some tests in White Sands in '77 against some hardened targets. They weren't hard enough!!!

BTW, one of the 1st test with an A-10 with the 30MM version of depleted, nearly killed the airframe. Spoke with a pilot who did some testing there(Holloman), and he said he could feel the deceleration of his aircraft even at a steep angle of attack. But the A-10 flies slow enough, that he'd run out of ammo before he stalled.

And yes, it was known back then about having "active" residue after a strike with the depleted ammo.
Makes sense. Heat up steel enough to melt, and you'll have some burnoff too. Problem with depleted, is that when it boils off, it can be inhaled. That it's a heavy metal, we know this is bad news..


Oh, and why isn't "The Jackal" on the list to be banned? It's also a cookbook for anyone with the desire to....

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"Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation ... in the several kingdoms of Europe ... the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms" (James Madison, the Federalist Papers, No. 46).

"A nation of well informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in theregion of ignorance that tyranny begins." -Benjamin Franklin

[This message has been edited by Donny (edited September 17, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Donny (edited September 17, 2000).]
 
The A-10 can go through 30 or 35 thousand rounds of ammunition in 11 seconds....

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The Alcove

I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
 
Ezeckial: "Depleted" Uranium is a by-product of Uranium enrichment; Only a tiny portion of natural Uranium is the right isotope for power production and bombs, U235; Most of it is U238; After you've extracted the U235 to produce "enriched" Uranium, you have this waste product, "depleted" Uranium, which lacks isotope U235, but has the same mechanical and chemical properties. It ISN'T that much less radioactive, either! So you not only have to worry about heavy metal poisoning, but cancer from radiation, too.

Interesting side note; Last time I looked, federal laws against armor piercing ammo specifically prohibited "depeted" Uranium; So technically, you could probably legally make bullets out of natural Uranium without running afoul of THAT law, since it isn't depleted yet. The NRC might have something to say to you, though.

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Sic semper tyrannis!
 
The A-10 fires at a rate of about 1350 rounds per minute. 30 thousand in 11 seconds is a rate of fire of 163,637 rounds per minute. :)
 
Dangus: The A-10's cannon fires at around 70 rounds per second, according to an engineer who worked on it. 30 or 35 thousand rounds in 11 seconds is 'way too fast. Still, I understand they opted to keep the spend cases inside the aircraft, as losing that much weight that fast from the aircraft upsets the trim.

Brett: Your explanation of "depleted" uranium is accurate. However, uranium isn't all that radioactive; it's usually found with traces of radium, which is. (I remember reading that after all the uranium was extracted from pitchblende, the remnants were still as radioactive as ever; this led to the discovery of radium.) I believe today's refining separates the radium, which still has industrial value. Still, U-238 is a heavy metal, and as such, has a toxicity independent of its radioactivity.
 
I dont know how holloywood replicated it, maybe iwth a browning, but that cannon was supposed to be a 14.5 mm Soviet KPV machine cannon. It is the cannon that comes standard on the BRDM-2 Armoured reconnaissance vehicle and is also the cannon that you see pointing to the sky for AA duty on the wheeled trailers from Kuwait. You will note in the movie, when he is shopping for the perfect gun on his comuter it even said KPV on the screen.
 
Perfect gun...
I believe that it was far from.
If he wanted perfect, a Dakota Longbow in .338 Lapua Magnum from the top of a building a couple blocks over would have been perfect.
And since that area was the Nations Bank Plaza in Richmond, VA... there are several very good escape routes within moments.
 
Nuther reason to keep cases and links inside the aircraft is those bits and pieces can spoil the day for you or a buddy by gettin into minor things like engines etc.

Recoil can be a major factor with some gun packages. Longest time on target for aimed fire toward ground target favors low airspeed, too low and difference tween good shootin and stall is recoil.

Sam.....recoil is cool, makes me forget my arthritus
 
I should point out that the original movie (made in the '70s?) had no 20mm, 14.5mm, .50 BMG or other large bore automatic weapons. It was still a good flick.
 
That was a major plot flaw from my perspective-- he had that cool remote camera and sighted it in like it was a tack driver.

Even if it was, put that thing on a car chassis, and if THAT van was rockin', don't come knockin!

HE hosed off hundreds of rounds into a crowded stage, and didn't hit anybody.
 
For those so inclined to be armed with the facts, some accurate info on the GAU-8 & Avenger (A-10 "Warthog") can be found:

HERE

[This message has been edited by Mykl (edited September 18, 2000).]
 
DU is a good material for projectiles and penetrators not only because of its high density, but because of its hardness (in the alpha state) and because of it pyrophoric nature.

Without getting too technical, DU penetrators actually get harder AND sharper as they slam into their target.

Furthermore, the tiny bits of DU that flake off as the projectile is passing through its target are pyrophoric, that is, they catch on fire and burn with an intensity greater than magnesium!

For more info about why DU is so useful, as well as a realistic assessment of the risks it presents to a soldier, check out :

http://www.wood.army.mil/CHBULLETIN/Jan00/depleted_uranium.htm
 
Dunno exactly, but the A10 doesn't carry anything NEAR 30k rounds of ammo. Why, that'd flatten the nosewheel.
 
I think I learned more in this post that I did in my entire Chem II class.

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God, Guns and Guts made this country a great country!

oberkommando sez:
"We lost the first and third and now they are after the Second!(no pun intended)"
 
The A-10 can carry up to 1.174 rounds for the main gun. I found this number in both "Air Forces of the World" ISBN 0-89009-624-4 and in "Modern Air Combat" ISBN 0-517-412659.

These books are both copyright 1983.

[This message has been edited by Dizzipator (edited September 18, 2000).]
 
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