The most horrible crime I've ever heard of!

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I've tried to put the details out of my mind but a couple of days ago I read about three people(two boys and a girl} who killed another girl with sticks, rocks and finally a knife - over a three day period, coming back each day to see if she was dead. Happened somewhere near Atlanta if I remember correctly.

If they had used an "assault rifle" Rather, Brocaw and Jennings would still be doing special reports on it.

RKBA!
 
Folks, not being a bible thumper here,
but the Devil is out there and some folks seek council from him.
Same as it ever was.....

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Devil and the deep blue sea behind me,
Vanish in the air you'll never find me...
 
People like this... Terrible...
Death is too good for them.

You can do amazing torture with a surgical lazer...

No pain is too much for them. Inhuman. Just freakin inhuman.

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"Supreme authority derives from a mandate from the masses. Not from some farsicle aquatic ceremony."

RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
The Critic formerly known as Kodiac
 
Unfortunately, George, these acts are human and only human. I don't believe there is any other species, past or present, that will do these types of things to their own or any other species, not to mention to their own young. We are, indeed, unique on this planet in our diversity of atrocities.
 
Not to be blunt, but does anyone really think these people's genes need to live on? Killing someone else's children is an entirely different matter, but isn't this ecological selection? One would logically think that a sentient being could merely chose not to reproduce if they didn't want children, given easy access to methods that prevent conception, but I guess not.

Mal H, I'm afraid you're wrong. A great many species on this planet commit "atrocities" on their young, including cannibalization. Even among "higher" mammals, this is quite common. Male bears and tigers will kill cubs on sight, to bring the females into estrus quicker. Lions generally kill all the young in a pride that a male has taken over, ensuring only their own genes are propagated. They also have "bad mothers", shunned females that kill cubs, as seen in "The Crater Lions". Mice readily cannibalize their own young if placed under environmental pressure.

Some species of desert scorpion even exist almost entirely on eating smaller members of their own kind. Fossil records indicate this is nothing new. Tyrannosaur bones have holes that fit tyrannosaur teeth. Ancient trilobites have been found with other trilobites still undigested in their gut.
 
Torture is a waste of time. The death penalty is not a punishment--it is a way of removing a threat that can't be remedied any other way. There is no way to bring these parents back to humanity, so simply put a gun to their heads and remove them. Do it without joy, and try your best to do it without anger. It's not justice, it's a chore that has to be done.
It's lots of fun to think up ever-more-gruesome ways to kill these people, but if it were done I think you'd all end up seeing my point. By that time, unfortunately, it would be too late.

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Don

"Hey you, let's fight!"
"Them's fightin' words!"
 
Don,

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I would place my body between children and animals like these...but torture removes justice from the equation, and instead, seeks revenge. One cannot undo the horror that has already occurred.

So cry for the victims. Cry, perhaps as well, for the perpetrators. Consign them with as little passion as possible to a higher authority. If you don't believe in God, hope they come back as something decent...But the kids are dead, and there is no God-damned thing we can do about it. There is nothing to be gained from torturing the perps than the gratification of some twisted hearts.

The saddest part of this story is seeing the reaction from you guys. There are animals out there, people who from defect, abuse, or choice behave abhorrently- but I fear for my country if those I would most quickly call my brothers and sisters are unable to see the inherent wrong in this advocating behavior of this sort.

Sadly,

John Shirley
 
In my frustration, I have spoken to soon: quite a few of you expressed your sadness at the inhumanity of the actions, but expressed a refusal to stoop to such depths. I applaud you.
 
John/Spectre: Understand you when you make the excelent point that NOTHING is gained from the torture of these... people... who do these things to children. Retaliation is NOT retribution. But it feels right to yell ouch when stubbing your toe. It's useless, but primal. The primal rage to hurt the people that harm defenseless children is just too strong to be too critical of.

But one thing my father taught me early on as a boy: the first thing you do to treat a snakebite is-- kill the snake. This is not emotional-- just pragmatic and workmanlike.

The real emotion begins when you consider the children, not the parents. The closest I come to on these parents is a cross between highest disgust and boggling disbelief. Maybe that's a type of horror.

The thing that really chokes me up is the LIVES these children had. I'm not being egotistical when I say that my daughter's life revolves around my wife and me. She trusts us completely. She has no concept of being left uncared for, or of being hurt by us out of malice. She takes it completely for granted that we love her, no matter what. I struggle with the thought of this 10 kilogram blonde and blue light struggling to grow up without such an assurance that her parents and caretakers loved her. Would even care about her, more less for her. Wouldn't actively hurt her.

Struggle, hell. Reduced to tears.

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Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap?
 
Perspective. Perspective. PERSPECTIVE. Are we really supposed to hear about things like this, idealistically shout "****HAPPENS" and blythely go about uur daily routine???

Count me out!!!

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
The solution is simple for the perpetrators, simply kill them tomorrow AM, I don't care how as long as it's done. They have the right to a speedy trial, guaranteed, this afternoon would be fine.

I say "perpetrators" because the woman's story doesn't square with me in any tiny way. Why not? Because (check this out, Brokaw and Rather) if she feared for her life and her children's lives as claimed, she should have known to obtain a gun and dispatched the bastard. I may spend the rest of my life in prison, but you will NOT do that to my children!

Hang 'em, shoot 'em, gas 'em, inject 'em, I don't care. Just get the job done. Instead, we'll all be 20 years older before they get theirs, paying taxes to support them all the while, and even then they may be "rehabilitated" and released.
 
Mal H, I am NOT defending or excusing in any way what these low life scum did, but humans aren't the only species to do this to their own by any means. Lions and other cats are known to do this sort of thing on a regular basis---when a new male drives off the old male and takes over his harem, the first thing he does is kill the children of the old male to make the females come into heat faster.
Lions, however, are not reasoning creatures and have an excuse. Humans don't.
 
A Maryland man yesterday did a Susan Smith....he took his kids during his visitation, said they were going to an amusement park. He then kills them both by shootong, calls 911 and said he was carjacked. Both were very young. He is charged with 2 counts of 1st degree murder.

Now on this one there will be an outcry because he used a gun

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
RepublicThunderbolt and RikWriter, I guess I should have been clearer in my post. You're both right that many species kill those of their own species. But, I believe in all cases it is only for either food under dire circumstances or for procreation reasons. This is simply nature at work. There is never, I believe, any animosity or evil at work.

My main point was summed up in the final sentence, "We are, indeed, unique on this planet in our diversity of atrocities." And I still believe we are, no matter what other species do. No other animal plans murder as far in advance as humans do.
 
As a student and ex-professor of biological sciences I'll agree to both sides, Mal and Rik....
though I give weight to Mal...

It makes no difference that other species kill their young;...its not planned and they don't keep track of a checkbook or their bills or their appointment next Thursday.
It is an infamnia for a human to kill their children unless it is to save them from an immediate excruciating death.
So, because lions, et al genera may kill their young...it is irrelevent to this discussion. They are not human, we are and we have the knowledge of good and evil, and bottom line, we call the shots

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
when i was putting my wife thru school i had a part time job on a child/adult abuse hotline.
when you have one of those jobs, you hear what is possible for one human to do to another human.
from mothers boiling their kids for punishment, teens kicked out of their homes after being sexually abused, old people beaten by their own kids- jesus, it goes on and on...
i even had a call once from a guy whos wife use to beat him with a board.
i tend not to be a real religious person, but i have an inkling of suspicion there is pure evil walking in this world.
 
DC, I have no "side" to give weight to. As I said, I was not excusing their actions, I was simply correcting Mal's statement that no other species did it. Please don't mistake my post for an argument that what those people did was defensible in any way.
 
Rant deleted because it served no purpose.

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[This message has been edited by Hal (edited September 12, 1999).]
 
Folks,

The conversation seems to be largely about the merits of torture v. dispassionate punishment. I believe we all agree the original act was a "horrible crime" (per title).

I've received several e-mails suggesting some posts herein could be excerpted to mis-represent TFL and its membership. They requested this thread be closed. I agree.
 
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