The most durable handgun is ...
- Thread starter FUD
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Most high quality handguns should last a lifetime if they are taken care of. I agree with some of the other posters. A quality 1911 or one carefully built up by a GOOD gunsmith is VERY reliable. The problem comes when owners add match barrels with tight tolerances, overly tight bushings, or shoot wadcutters or ammo other than 230 ball nose. The trade-off in the 1911 is often (but not always) between speed and accuracy and reliability. The other problem that affects the reliability of 1911s is work done by incompetent smiths or basement tinkerers. Left alone or worked on by a GOOD smith the 1911 should be as reliable and durable as any other handgun. The same is true for the BHP--mine has about 5,000 with no malfunctions.
I have nothing against Glocks, but they are not only the only reliable and durable guns around.
I have nothing against Glocks, but they are not only the only reliable and durable guns around.
H&K USP, Ruger, Glock 17 (then the rest of 'em), Beretta, SIG... All pretty tough.
Check out www.streetpro.com/usp/torture.html for an overview of USP torture testing, which includes clearing two squibs (one just past the chamber, then one 30mm in from the muzzle) by firing another round! The thing still has to work and be accurate, too - specs say "No damage to pistol. Accuracy unaffected." Ruger autos are probably the only other guns that tough.
The toughest factory finish award has to go to Glock.
Check out www.streetpro.com/usp/torture.html for an overview of USP torture testing, which includes clearing two squibs (one just past the chamber, then one 30mm in from the muzzle) by firing another round! The thing still has to work and be accurate, too - specs say "No damage to pistol. Accuracy unaffected." Ruger autos are probably the only other guns that tough.
The toughest factory finish award has to go to Glock.
Run it over with a tank and it keeps on running even if you don't 
If you're talking durability in terms of throwing it in a mud puddle, dragging it through sand, then shooting it, then the Glock, Hi Power, HK MK23 are the most durable. If you're judging in terms on lifespan, then that depends on too many factors like number of rounds, cleaning habits of the owner, type of rounds, environment, and the list goes on.
Tossup between Glocks, H&K UPSs and Ruger polymer autos. Anyone of them will outlive me by many, many years, even if not perfectly maintained(this is a big admission, I'm a 1911 freak). I would say revolvers, but the crane to frame fit is too delicate for me to pu them in the same catagory as the above mentioned autos. Not that I don't like revos, but a sprung crane is a gunsmith trip for sure.
I'm not sure about the finish on Glocks. I have a buddy who carried his G26 for one afternoon in his waistband while we went shooting together, and when we got back to the house and he took it out, the tenifer(sp?) on the slide had come off in a big circle, leaving almost bare steel. He had sweat on it profusely.
Then again I've heard of guys cleaning their Glocks in the sink with simple green and not rusting.
I know my Ruger can withstand just about anything. My vote goes to either Ruger or the HK.
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XRayMind
Remember: You owe the great freedoms you enjoy to a 'bunch of gun owners'.
[This message has been edited by XRayMind (edited July 13, 2000).]
Then again I've heard of guys cleaning their Glocks in the sink with simple green and not rusting.
I know my Ruger can withstand just about anything. My vote goes to either Ruger or the HK.
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XRayMind
Remember: You owe the great freedoms you enjoy to a 'bunch of gun owners'.
[This message has been edited by XRayMind (edited July 13, 2000).]
I believe the Ruger revolvers are almost indestructible. I am not fond of auto's so I cant speak for them. My smith is nice but to me it isnt for a real environment ie: camping and hiking, which bums me out. I buy my guns for practical reasons and I do take care of them but I dont baby them, and my ruger is looking as good as when I bought it 4 yrs ago.
Glocks for autoloaders and Smith and Wesson for revolvers.
1911s please . . . too many parts and springs that break. And too many of them need to be "accurized" before shooting.
Sigs please . . . why do you think Sig, Colt, Smith & Wesson and HK have lost LE sales? I've broken several trigger springs and small connectors in my P220 and P226. Great guns but they rust.
Durability and functionality. Simply put, Glocks are durable because they have less parts to break. If a part breaks, buy a new part and slap it in there.
How many other guns have almost completely drop in parts that require no gunsmithing?
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The Seattle SharpShooter - TFL/GT/UGW/PCT/KTOG
1911s please . . . too many parts and springs that break. And too many of them need to be "accurized" before shooting.
Sigs please . . . why do you think Sig, Colt, Smith & Wesson and HK have lost LE sales? I've broken several trigger springs and small connectors in my P220 and P226. Great guns but they rust.
Durability and functionality. Simply put, Glocks are durable because they have less parts to break. If a part breaks, buy a new part and slap it in there.
How many other guns have almost completely drop in parts that require no gunsmithing?
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The Seattle SharpShooter - TFL/GT/UGW/PCT/KTOG
WalterGAII
Moderator
The black finish on the Glock is not tennifer, it's a phosphate finish. Tennifer is the treatment that the metal gets before the black color goes on. You can take all the black finish off your Glock and the tennifer will prevent it from rusting.
Glock. Polygonal rifling that will last forever, tenifer finish that is indestructible, and a slide and barrel that are machined from solid blocks of steel. Polymer frame that you can run over with a truck. SIG has none of these features.
I would say the HK USP is damn close though...and a fine gun if you like having decocks and safeties and whatnot.
I would say the HK USP is damn close though...and a fine gun if you like having decocks and safeties and whatnot.
Sig does have a polymer-framed pistol. Polymer is tuough but take a knife to a polymer frame and then to a steel or aluminum frame and tell me which is tougher, there's always trade-offs. Most of the Sig slides are now milled from stainless steel. The older carbon-steel slides have a weak bluing that does come off easier but won't rust unless you neglect it.
The stainless slides have a new finish that is much better. In addition, Sig parts are drop in and several of the parts are interchangeable between models. Plus, it still functions if there's a now non-existent frame crack problem (a "problem that's been corrected" or a broken or missing trigger bar spring (a "problem" that has also been corrected").
In regards to why there are more Glocks used by LE, there are many factors. Price being a huge concern. Plus, it's not like LE get to choose what they use, someone else makes that decision. Moreover, don't forget that many LE aren't "gun" people and the only gun they ever have/had is the one they are issued.
An LE friend of mine attended several training courses held by the FBI in the late 80's and early 90's. Back then, the FBI told everyone who attended that the Glock just wasn't up to par and was basically junk and the basic guns to go with were Beretta, Sig and HK.
Now, they issue the Glock as do other agencies. Obviously, Glock made some improvements (2nd, 3rd generation, etc) and was able to offer a price that was attractive. Plus, with it's simplicity, it was probably easier to teach new recruits that have a hard time understanding how to use a decocking lever.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great gun with a good trigger system/concept, and few parts that one can easily install himself/herself. I just think that their ergonomics aren't too hot. One day, I'd consider getting one Glock, the 20 just so I could have a 10mm.
In the long run, I think that all the well-made guns from the big companies like Beretta, Sig, Glock, HK, etc will stand up to abuse. As to who's the best, the nod probably is going to go to Glock but then again, who's done a real scientific study of it and then again, is it that important for weekend warriors and hobby shooters who will probably never wear the things out.
The stainless slides have a new finish that is much better. In addition, Sig parts are drop in and several of the parts are interchangeable between models. Plus, it still functions if there's a now non-existent frame crack problem (a "problem that's been corrected" or a broken or missing trigger bar spring (a "problem" that has also been corrected").
In regards to why there are more Glocks used by LE, there are many factors. Price being a huge concern. Plus, it's not like LE get to choose what they use, someone else makes that decision. Moreover, don't forget that many LE aren't "gun" people and the only gun they ever have/had is the one they are issued.
An LE friend of mine attended several training courses held by the FBI in the late 80's and early 90's. Back then, the FBI told everyone who attended that the Glock just wasn't up to par and was basically junk and the basic guns to go with were Beretta, Sig and HK.
Now, they issue the Glock as do other agencies. Obviously, Glock made some improvements (2nd, 3rd generation, etc) and was able to offer a price that was attractive. Plus, with it's simplicity, it was probably easier to teach new recruits that have a hard time understanding how to use a decocking lever.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great gun with a good trigger system/concept, and few parts that one can easily install himself/herself. I just think that their ergonomics aren't too hot. One day, I'd consider getting one Glock, the 20 just so I could have a 10mm.
In the long run, I think that all the well-made guns from the big companies like Beretta, Sig, Glock, HK, etc will stand up to abuse. As to who's the best, the nod probably is going to go to Glock but then again, who's done a real scientific study of it and then again, is it that important for weekend warriors and hobby shooters who will probably never wear the things out.
Durable? Probably the Glock 17. Not the most reliable weapon in the world, though it is pretty good, but it'll keep shooting forever with nothing replaced but springs. Sigs? Puleeze! They work great until the frame breaks at 20,000 rounds. Beretta locking blocks break at the same time, but which is easier to replace? Yup, the locking block.
Reliable? P7, Beretta 92, or any S&W revolver.
Reliable? P7, Beretta 92, or any S&W revolver.