The Magnum Disease.

The cartridge title of "Magnum" needs to be taken with a grain of salt, as it has no real definition other than it tends to signify "faster than some existing cartride" and even that has its exceptions.

We know 44 mag and 357 mag were modifications to existing cartridges.

454 Casull was an beefed up 45 LC but never took the "magnum" designation. Then S&W beefed it up some more and called it the 460 "magnum" instead of 454 mag or 45LC mag. Hard to imagine the 454 Casull not being a "magnum". I guess that old .45 Winchester magnum really messed the naming thing up.

We have .41 magnum, but we have no .41 special

Is 22 Mag a powerhouse of overkill?

We never got a 9mm magnum, but we did get a 38 Super.

What is a CCI mini-mag aside from "sounding like" a high velocity round?

I have both 30-06 and 7mm Rem mag which are so similar that I can't imagine ever saying "I'll take the 30-06 because that 7mm magnum is overkill".

A bunch of silly rambling, I know, but the only point is that calling somthing "magnum" doesn't necessarily mean much, but it sounds great as a marketing tool.
 
The trouble, as is so often the case, is the extremes.

One group thinks nobody on earth ever had a use for a magnum cartridge, never will, no one can shoot one without flinching and everyone who thinks they need one or might want one is a ridiculous fool.

They're a small but vocal group.

The other thinks no non-magnum cartridge can kill anything bigger than a small rabbit or shoot anything, even paper, beyond a couple hundred yards (at most!), only kids and girls flinch from recoil, etc, etc

They're also a small but vocal group.

What then happens is that a lot of folks OFF the extremes but leaning one way or the other will just automatically assume that anyone on "the other side" is ON one of the extremes, and react... well... extreme.

I know a group of deer hunters that all, except one guy, hunt with .30cal magnums of some variety. The other guy uses a .270Win. They think he's nuts. Can't kill deer with such a thing. Heck, sometimes shots get long. 50 yards even. Those little bitty guns have lost all their energy by then.

I don't bother telling them that I do my hunting with a .243. They did look at me kind of funny the one time I hunted with them and I carried a Pro Hunter handgun in 7-08. They thought it was a toy, I guess.

A whole lot of hunters have never considered anything beyond their own circumstance. I do it here and this way and so must everybody else. I don't need a magnum anything so neither do they, right? They're fools if they think they do.

There's also a fair number that DO use magnums and think everybody who doesn't is nuts. Same thing but reverse. I do it here and this way and so must everybody else. I DO need a magnum something so they do too, right? They're fools if they think they don't.

There's a fair number of hunters who actually NEED magnum cartridges for their prey or hunting style, location or some combination thereof. There's also a fair number that never will need one and never will use one.

There's quite a few folks who can shoot magnum rifles that weigh in at 5 or 6 or 7 pounds and not flinch one bit, like their shooting a 10/22. Quite a few, but a distinct minority.

There's a lot more of us that DO flinch and either don't recognize it or refuse to admit it in the fear that it's not manly or it means we're just not good enough or something. I don't know every reason, but it's very common.

To make a long story longer, folks ought to recognize their own needs and use what they need, not worry about what some other folks are using, recognize the hyperbole/rhetoric on both sides and learn to ignore it.... while recognizing that a lot of folks off the extremes have good points on both sides.
 
I'll agree with Scorch, the hunting is about the outdoors. Enjoying the beauty of nature. I have sat for hours and just watched deer many times. Just enjoying the peace and quiet.

Good hunting skills often make the shooting much easier though. The hunting skills are much more valuable to learn. The shooting can become the easy part that just closes the deal on the hunting.

That being said, I do like to shoot, and I do have some magnum rifles. I like to use them on the big fields. If you don't practice a lot, don't know how to range things with a reticle, don't have a scope that lets you do that, and don't have the accuracy out of the rifle...you will miss most of the time.

Hitting the kill zone consistently much past about 300 yards isn't as easy as most folks think it is. Getting a lucky hit occasionally don't get it done. You need to be able to hit a 9" circle EVERY time. If you can't, then learn how to get closer.

The Magnum is just carrying a little more freight, a little faster, and a little flatter. But it don't make anybody a marksman for sure. They definitely require more skill and discipline to shoot accurately at the ranges where they have the advantage.
 
I agree with Brian Pfleuger. Too many worrying about the other hunters. All the years been hunt here in Co haven't met hunter in the back country that has enjoyed hunting and what it offers.
 
I hope I can get ODNR to approve the 30-30 for deer.
I need an excuse for a centerfire levergun.

If I can't get within a couple hundred yards of the deer I can stop at the supermarket and buy hamburger on the way home. I know some states have different hunting environments.
 
I used to use a 7mm Mag but discovered I am sensitive to recoil and it was affecting my shooting. I switched to 7mm-08 and a 30/30 lever and actually enjoy target shooting again. Any centerfire bullet to the kill zone will kill a deer. All that matter is hitting where you want at the ranges you hunt at. If you like a mag great if you like a 25/35 great. They all work fine. When did deer become iron clad? My choice of caliber is personal as yours should be. Use whatever makes you happy

Mwal
 
Hunt with a .308 loaded with a good bonded bullet and a 300 MAG is not needed. This is not theory because I have much elk hunting experience with this cartridge.

The 7mm MAG is an entirely useful cartridge for truly long distance shots at big game animals. Yet recoil is not too offensive at all. I think of it as my .308 plus 175 yards of lethality.

Jack
 
Magnum disease is something some hunters catch and subsequently feel compelled to belittle magnums and anybody who uses them.
 
I spent some days with a Profession Hunter in New Mexico. They have Oryx in his regions and https://www.google.com/search?q=ory...X&ved=0ahUKEwimhc6a7qLKAhXB9h4KHboTDHEQsAQIJw lots of hunters want to bag an Oryx. The PH does all he can to dissuade the hunters to put away their Super Duper Magnums and use his 308 Winchester. He promises to get the hunters real close (less than 300 yards ) and tells them to shoot the Oryx through the shoulders. This breaks the animal down and keeps it from running off. Oryx are about 700 lbs and very tough. Neither magnums nor the 308 Win provide instant kills, but with the lighter recoiling rifle, the PH gets his clients to stop flinching and place the bullet in a spot that prevents the animal from running off. Then they proceed to finish the animal off, but I did not ask how.

Oryx are aggressive. I worked with a guy who passed a herd of Oryx on a dirt road. He was going very slowly so not to spook the animals. A male Oryx decided to ram his rental car, to show him who was boss. I saw the picture, it was a big dent. The Oryx walked away, no doubt proud of chasing off the vehicle.
 
Spend more time shooting and less time worrying what others shoot. I have 300WM with muzzle brake which i shoot very well. I also have a 308Win that i shoot very well. Have tried the 300 RUM and 7mm STW and recognize they are beyond my limit.
 
On Jan 02, 2016, I took a 130lb whitetail doe at 428yds with a 30-06 using a 165gr Remington Core-Lok bullet. One shot to the boiler. She ran 30yds and dropped.
 
One group thinks nobody on earth ever had a use for a magnum cartridge, never will, no one can shoot one without flinching and everyone who thinks they need one or might want one is a ridiculous fool.

They're a small but vocal group.

The other thinks no non-magnum cartridge can kill anything bigger than a small rabbit or shoot anything, even paper, beyond a couple hundred yards (at most!), only kids and girls flinch from recoil, etc, etc

They're also a small but vocal group.
Click to expand...

Well said Brian. I'm glad we're in the large but not-so-vocal group.:D
 
George Carlin used to muse about driving on the expressway and coming across another driver who was going REALLY slow, pointing out how awful they are, their low speed is a hazard, could cause a wreck, they are in the way, etc etc, and then he went on to muse about the guy driving REALLY fast, how he's a thrill-seeking nut, putting everyone's lives in danger with his reckless speed, etc.

In this thread, I see a lot of rational thoughts, most of them are expressed well. Also looks like the OP poured out a little gasoline and left some matches and casually walked away... :p:D

I'm not a hunter but I find great interest in reading each others tales. Pretty sure I would have been a great hunter in another lifetime, but not this one.
 
I used to use a 30-338. I guess I was lucky, because it didn't have "magnum" as part of its name so I passed the "Don't need a magnum" test for people who think that's important.

Because of medical issues, I had to stop using it. Now I have a .308 with a muzzle brake.

I still miss shooting the 30-338.
 
I built a nice 30-338 .Its an excellent cartridge.I got 2900 fps with a 200 gr Accubond bullet .Its in a Blueprinted HVA small ring magnum action,Canjar trigger,26 in Lilja # 3,and a Hi-Tec 20 OZ stock.Steel bedded(I chose to afford a little weight)It has a 3.5 to 10 Leupold VX3 on it,B+C.The load is calibrated to the reticle at IIRC,8000 ft. ,within limits of variable conditions.I built it as a fantasy 600 yd elk rifle.It works superbly,never shot an elk with it.Sure killed a deer and a pronghorn.Did not mess up meat.I have another 30-06 2/3 built .1909 Argentine,Lothar Walther #3 bbl,Garrett Accralite M-70 FWT pattern stock.I'll put a 6x42 Leupold fixed x scope on it.I don't figure on shooting at 600 yd elk.30-06 is plenty for my ranges.
I have had 3 7 mm Rem mags.One was the Husky I rebuilt as the 30-338.Barrel was only 22 or 23 in factory.
Its a great cartridge.I got discouraged by more bloodshot/jellied meat than I prefer.
I built a .257 AI.That has been my perfect go-to rifle for everything smaller than elk.I'd use it on elk in a heartbeat,I just have a bigger elk rifle.

I built a ,375 Taylor for elk hunting.Mildly loaded at 2600+ with a 260/270 gr bullet.Easy 300 yd hunting trajectory with a typical 200 ish + zero.

No,I don't need the power.I built it,it too,is light and easy handling.I carry it because I feel like it.Now,I'm old with a wrecked knee.Elk hunting like I used to?Thing of the past.My hunting partners would rather pack out meat than this Old Man.

My point,I can shoot a magnum,and use them.But I don't need them,and 80% of the time I use my 257.

An old friend of mine,a working cowboy at the time,became a guide for an outfitter up in a Northern Colorado Wilderness area.
His professional observation,If a client showed up with a .270,a 30-06,a 308,etc,it was a very good sign.

If a client showed up with the big magnums,he mentally prepared for more problems.It was more apprehension when they all had .340 Weatherbys,especially if they looked brand new and had cheap astronomical scopes on them.Throw in new looking boots and its eyerolling time.

One man's observation,true.

Pickup your PO Ackley Handbook for Shooters,Vol 1 and see what old school outfitter Les Bowman had to say about it.

I'm not knocking magnums,or those who use them.
I have a 7mm Rem coyote rifle.

But if you use 7mm08 or 7x57 or a 308,,you don't need a bigger gun to hunt elk.And the quivery excitement you get sneaking up to 300 or 200 yds or less. from the critter just is missed out on by the 400 yd guys.
They get more of a "boom,....whup......oh goody,he fell over"...

They ballistically skip the stalk...that feeling a bird dog on point knows.
No criticism,to each his own.
 
The only magnum big game rifle I own is an older Ruger in 44MAG. This carbine is entirely useful for taking deer sized animals out to a distance of about 100 yards. But beyond this distance, there are many more capable cartridges to do the job.

Jack
 
Magnum Disease

In my younger days I was guilty of believing that a magnum was better than a standard offering.As I got older and somewhat wiser I soon realized that animals and paper targets don't need a cannon to kill them.Deer,hogs,and other critters have been taken with far less powerful rounds.Now I see things much differently and believe I cheated myself out of many a good time exploring such cartridges as the 250 Savage,257 Roberts,7x30 Waters,all the 6mm's and even the 270.I had dismissed them all as inadequate.Live and learn.
 
you're not starting from 0

I used to wonder about this alot as well...what all the fuss was about for only a 200-600 fps gain in rifle cartridges. If you start from 0fps then the 3-400fps that my 300 win mag exceeds the .308 win by (on average) isn't that big a deal (like only 10-15%). However, here's the thing...youre not starting from zero. Most hunting bullets cannot be counted upon to expand in a consistent emphatic manner much below 1800fps (per most manufacturers specs). Additionally, with small caliber rounds there does seem to be some kind of "magic number" in the 2400-2600 fps range, below which wounding is broad and thorough and altogether satisfactory and yet killing is greatly delayed, less emphatic (see Ballistic Studies website for details on this observation...these guys have shot literally thousands of game animals, they know what they're talking about). If your referential starting point is 1800 feet per second, not zero, then suddenly a 400 fps jump is a big jump indeed. A .300 win mag loaded with a 180 gr nbt at 3050 fps drops to that 1800 mark between 750 and 800 yards. a .308 with the same bullet started at 2650 fps hits 1800 at around 550 yards (both distances well beyond the shooting abilities of most hunters for sure). If you use 2400 fps as a point at which killing becomes more emphatic, then the .308 drops below that mark at 150 yrds, the .300 at around 375. So 400 fps is a big difference when you realize that youre not comparing them from a 0fps starting point.
 
In reference to the above post.

The numbers above are pretty much spot on for old school bullets. Back in the day when all bullets sucked compared to what is being made today getting more speed at the muzzle was the only way to get better performance downrange. And with old school bullets there were a lot of shooters that were better than the equipment they were using. Magnums made a lot of sense if you wanted to shoot farther than about 300 yards.

For the record I have no problem with magnums. Concerns over recoil are often overstated and they work.

But modern bullets have made magnums less viable than ever. For one thing modern optics and range finders have made the need for flat shooting rounds less important. Also bullet speed at impact is the key. Modern bullets are far more aerodynamic and maintain speeds much better at range. They are also more effective on game. Many 243 loads will now do the job we thought a 30-06 was need for 40 years ago.

Most people consider 1500 ft lbs at impact to be acceptable for elk. Traditionally one of the better elk combo's is a 180 gr Partition from a 300 WM. There are some very aerodynamic 200-215 gr 30 caliber hunting bullets now. Loaded in a 30-06 they will exceed the 300 magnum loaded with 180 gr Partitions at 250 yards or farther.

A 308 loaded with these bullets will fall below 1500 ft lbs at 600 yards, exactly the same range as a 300 WM/180Partition.

Of course loaded in a 300 WM you'll not drop below 1500 ft lbs to beyond 900 yards. Just changing bullets instead of cartridges can add several hundred yards to your rifles effectiveness.
 
Very true, about modern bullets making standard cartridges better. However, especially with long heavy high bc bullets, magnum cartridges have also been made more capable...it's still apples to apples. And magnum cases generally step further ahead from standard cartridges when using heavy for caliber bullets. I really like my current battery of hunting rifle cartridges...243, 270, 300 win mag. I was under no impression I needed the .300 win for most hunting, but I'm very fond of it, and since I already had a .270 the .308 or .30-06 seemed a bit redundant.
 
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