The lesser of two evils

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Joe,

It's RAE's idea. Let's see how he wants to do it!

(I hope we can deliver a shipload of cards to them. :) )

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Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited October 16, 2000).]
 
Dennis,
You have brought up many truths. It is sad how we are compromising away everything we hold dear as American rights and values. I'm also glad you are voting for Bush as that is the one and only way to prevent a Gore administration. You are so very right about uniting and supporting the people and groups that support the Constitution. We should begin now working to get people we really want elected in 2002 and 2004.

As to the NRA, we must work from within to make it the organization we want it to be. It is the only pro-gun group with real power. I hate to see some of the compromises NRA has made, but without NRA the RKBA would be long gone. In 1994 NRA could have endorsed a 15 round magazine capacity limit, as opposed to the Clinton 10 round limit, and it would have easily passed. They chose not to compromise. We lost that one by one or two votes. I thought then and still think NRA made the right choice, but a case could be made for how much better a 15 round limit would be. The RKBA is a fight we will never win. It is a fight we must always keep fighting or we will lose. The anti-gun forces will never go away but we can gain back some ground.
 
Dennis,
It's not a matter of who's idea it is as much as it is who can make it work. I believe you are in a far better situation to make it work than I am, so run with it. k?

About the other. Well, I have publicly hinted that the staff, many of whom are THE most respected and listened to members of TFL have resorted to spending far too much time in the staff lounge and far too little time here in the forum proper. I'm sure I'm not the only one that has seen that happen. FWIW, I personally don't care what transpires there, only that the contributions of, and the accessability of the staff, has been severly curtailed in the last 6 months.
 
Dennis, thanks for voting Bush this time around. I hereby make a pledge that if Bush and a Republican-led congress screw us around this time, I'm going third party. They are not going to get another chance with my vote. The problem with a split President/Congress in the past has been gridlock. They sneak gun-control onto some big budget bill and it gets past. If it happens with the Repubs in both branches of government, I'm going third party. However, with everything that's on the line this year, we can't afford to throw away the possiblity of a republican pres/republican congress/and potential supreme court justices. It doesn't make sense for any gunowner not to support Bush this time around. I have signed Monkeyleg's petition. I do believe that we can REPEAL some of these laws if we have a repub pres/repub congress.

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NRA Life Member
GOA
GSSF
 
Yes, voting for the lesser of two evils may make sense this time. You must go with your gut. I feel as if our society has become very ill. Part of that illness is the inattentiveness to our freedoms and what really made this country great. The Hollywoood culture has been "drugging" our kids with the wrong messages, and our public schools have not helped. Like any major illness, we will not get better over night, or by taking a certain pill, or visiting a certain physician. We must look at the long haul to recuperate. The first step may have to be a small one while we start to plan on how to make things better. This situation didn't start overnight, and we won't fix it overnight. We must stop the decay first, and then begin to rebuild our strength if it isn't too late. I will be voting for Bush, but if he gets elected and then takes the politically correct route, especially on gun rights, he won't receive another vote from me. Also, we need to inject new buzzwords if we can. Instead of asking what a candidates position on gun control is, let's rephrase the question to what is your position on our gun rights. Much harder for a politician to give you a negative on that one.

I think we have to stick our necks out this year, but start the rumblings inside the NRA, the GOP and other groups, that this is their last chance to secure gun rights votes. If they can't deliver, we may as well let it go down the toilet and get to the dirty deed sooner than later, what ever that comes down to.

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"If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in
peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the
hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you and may
posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." Samuel Adams.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dennis:
Doc,
And (nralife, are you out there?) yes, I will vote for Bush.[/quote]

Why bother? It's not like Bush is close to losing Texas in the election.
 
Ive been sending back their requests for money and for me to rejoin with their
postage paid envalopes with a copy of the
'common sense gun laws' we the NRA support
ofcourse without paying the postage.
The NRA knows the liberals give them all the credit for any battles won and doesnt see you running to anyone else you send them
30 bucks and tell them stop compromising
theyll sure cash your check.
I think its sort of short sigted to say the
NRA is the only lobby with any power,was it the NRA that got Orinn Hatch to back off from supporting the ANTI-gun juvenile injustice bill? NO it was hundreds of thousands of postcards from GOA members.
Trent Lott and MCcain the other republocrat leaders that also supported it also saw similar postcards but not as many.
Youd know that if you were a member.
But if your an NRA member you do know the NRA
did NOT tell you about the betrayal of these
thress republicans who they have endorsed time and again.
Its a laugh everytime to me everytime I see the 'gunshow loophole' discussed on here and how certain politicians support it and how disgusting they are for doing so but most of us still planning on sending that powerful
'only one with power' lobby money whom ALSO keep supporting the closing of the gunshow loophole or in other words the transfer of private property WE make certain despite all their continued without any sign of let up
in their compromises that they are the ones with the most power WE THE PEOPLE are making certain the compromises continue.
So stop pointing fingers.
Ive sent Neal Knox money and theirs a long list of agressive orgs below that Ill send money to but none of them support compromise
because I dont either Ive got english blood
but Ive got american blood that I will bleed if I have to how about you....
www.gunowners.org www.ccops.org www.jpfo.org www.keepandbeararms.org www.citizensofamerica.org www.jbs.org www.saf.org www.ccrkba.org

And then again you can welcome more bans.
Once agian awesome post Dennis.

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"those who sacrifice
liberty for security deserve neither"
 
Dennis,
Yes, I saw it. Since you have my original, you may as well post it, either here or the suggestion forum. Let me assure you, I'm not the only one that has noticed the increase in the size of TFL's *government*.
*addendum: Instead of suggestions, please refer to general.
Rich

[This message has been edited by RAE (edited October 16, 2000).]
 
RAE,
It's gone. Once I understood ... there was no need.
I assumed others had similar questions and you all deserved an answer.
It’s no problem.
----

Eric,
I can't "not vote". ;)
I may hate what I have to do but I'll transform that frustration and anger into
greater effort and perseverance.


------------------
Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!
 
I'm 19. I'm in the National Guard. I own both a handgun and a nice AR15 variant, the Professional Ordnance Carbon-15. If Mr. Bush does what he says on his website, I will be turned into a double felon.


Cute.
 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Packin' Heat
Concealed-Weapons Law Makes Some Texans Feel Safer < And
Others Less So
Fox News
Penny Riggs, a 34-year-old post-doctoral cancer researcher,
was driving home along an isolated stretch of Highway 71 in central
Texas
last August when what seemed to be a monster-sized truck or van barreled
up
behind her. In a small case beside her sat Riggs' best hope of
protecting
herself < a 9mm Beretta semi-automatic handgun she carries, thanks to
the
1995 law that Texas Gov. George W. Bush signed permitting citizens to
carry
concealed weapons. http://www.foxnews.com/elections/101100/dome_bush_guns.sml
<http://www.foxnews.com/elections/101100/dome_bush_guns.sml>
You just read George W's position on guns, but what is
Gore's?
[copy and paste link into browser]
http://congress.nw.dc.us/cgi-bin/election.pl?dir=law&command=member&id=2
0007
<http://congress.nw.dc.us/cgi-bin/election.pl?dir=law&command=member&id=
2000
7>
&fulltext=P80000912&issue_name=Crime+/+Drugs
 
Nightcrawler, if I am not mistaken, your situation would fall under the ex-post-facto category whereas since you legally obtained them before the law was passed, your situation would not be affected. Kind of like allowing us to keep our pre-ban mags after 1994.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dennis:
Eric,
I can't "not vote". ;)
I may hate what I have to do but I'll transform that frustration and anger into
greater effort and perseverance.
[/quote]

Understood, but there are other candidates to support besides Bush in a state where a Bush victory is not in doubt, if that's your concern.
 
I have a question for those who are professing to bail on GW and the Republicans if they let us down while controlling both the White House AND the Congress:

What are you going to do if Hillary is the Democrat's nominee in 2004? You gonna "send a message" to Bush by not voting for him?

Don't make me laugh.

If you can be frightened into voting for the lesser of two evils now, then it will work again in 2004, 2008, and for as long as the Republicans are able to scare you about gun control the way that the Democrats scare senior citizens about Social Security.

I, personally, have seen enough. I will vote for individual candidates that the GOP offers up (like Bob Schaffer in Colorado, who I will have the distinct pleasure of voting for this November), but I will NOT judge a Republican against a Democrat. I will judge BOTH (and other candidates) against the Constitution. Whoever reaches for that standard will get my vote. If it is none of them, then I will write someone in.

No more of this "death by a thousand cuts" crap.
 
I'm not looking to get myself shot, either.

Nor am I in a hurry to shoot anyone else.

The question still remains:

What are you going to do if Bush and the GOP continue the trend of dissecting the Constitution? Are you going to vote for them again in 2004?

And let me add this: If I am wrong about Bush, and you are right, then I will be among the first to champion his effort for re-election in 2004. Along with that, let me state that I sincerely HOPE that I am wrong, and that I will have to make good on the preceding statement.

If you're voting for Bush because you are scared of Gore, then you will ALWAYS be forced to choice between among such candidates. I am not going to play that game anymore. I've seen where it has gotten us today, and know beyond the shadow of a doubt that things will only continue to get worse if we continue to settle for sub-standard candidates.

What "message" does that send, anyway? If you support candidates when they abridge your rights, what leverage do you have left?

If my rights are going to be taken from me, I'll be damned if I am going to be a willing participant by helping elect those who do so.

And I'd also like for someone to address the thought process of "holding on to what we can for now". I don't know about the rest of you, but I have four kids, and I intend to work hard for a free America for them. And I don't mean settling for what I can get, either. I mean to have my rights, and to have ALL of them, intact.

Why are we even talking about giving up our rights? How far have we stooped as a nation? Men bled and died over lesser injustices than we will happily acquiesce to in modern America. I find it appalling that the word "compromise" is used when the word "capitulation" should be inserted. "Compromise" implies that both sides give a little to achieve a result desireable for both. When I have my rights, what can the other side possibly offer me in the way of a "compromise"? They have nothing with which to barter. They can only take, and take they have. And you are kidding yourself if you do not see that the Republicans have been willing partners with the Democrats on a large number of freedom-bashing pieces of legislation.

A lot of people in this and other discussions are pretty much where I was in 1996. I voted for Dole, with the same "this is their last chance" attitude. They DID blow it, and I am now making good on my end.
 
I have always viewed Bush as a step towards where we need to be, but not the end to our troubles. We are frankly quite lucky to still have our guns in the current climate. Bush offers us a chance to slow down the tide of government growth, and invasion of privacy and loss of rights. Bush isn't perfect, but he's our only hope to start swinging things back in the right direction again.

I want Harry Browne as much as you guys do, but we can't have him this time, and you're gonna have to face that fact. Until the Libertarians get some foothold in the legislature, they'll never have a guy in the Whitehouse.

If we had an executive branch that consisted of a counsil instead of a president, things would be a lot better now, King Willey would have to make concessions to more conservative people who got elected for other positions.

If there's anything this country REALLY needs, it's a more representative executive branch, and a more tame legislature.

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The Alcove

I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me

Compromising the right position only makes you more wrong.
 
Eric,
Ah! I should have understood you the first time. You're right, of course.
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nralife,
I suggest you accept Bob Locke's views with less sarcasm for he is a more honest man, voting with more integrity, than we are.

I, like you, have become a political defeatist in this Presidential election.

Apparently, unlike you, I am not going to "wait and see" how good Bush will be. I will harass him and his faux-Democrat party by all means available within my limited resources to ensure they aware that their slightest transgression or weakness against gun control will cause resistance to their existence as an American political party.

When he implements the additional restrictions he has promised us, I will rub the nose of every Bush advocate in the political dirt.
-----

Bob Locke,

You are right. 100% right.
 
Dang! It took forever for this thread to re-load! 119K+ ! Time for a part 2?
This one is closed for length.
 
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