The legal aspect of owning long range rifles

S

Silent Shadow

New member
Ok, I've wanted to talk about this with someone who has knowledge and experience in the this field about this question. I guess here's my chance.

In the US owning a gun is not a big deal from what I see. I'm from Italy, and back in Europe, usually you need a fire arms certificate to be able to own a gun.

The way i've always seen the ownership of guns is that the military and law enforcement forces are the only ones that are allowed to. Back in Europe, I don't know of anyone who owns a gun, it is usually not legal to own a gun. In Britain, if I'm not mistaken, owning hand guns/pistols is forbidden by the law (because you can hide them so easily I guess).

But in the US, what is the policy and laws on gun ownership?

I'm 19. Can I just go to a gun store and get myself a sniper rifle just like that?

I guess people who hunt and compete in shooting can have guns.

I don't know. If someone could clear this up I would be glad.

I've got great interest in long range shooting. I would love to own a long range rifle, but I don't know of the legal implications of it.

This is why I'm considering buying a Beeman R9 air rifle.

Should I do that and forget about real rifles or should I pursue my interest in it?

Silent Shadow
 
Laws on handgun ownership and that whole bundle of complexity vary from state to state. I do know that to be legally able to buy a handgun, you must be at least 21 years of age, by federal law.

I think it's 18 for purchase of rifles. (?) In the U.S., a rifle is a rifle is a rifle, whether .22 rimfire or a custom gee-whiz reach-out-there wondercritter. Other than the "evil assault rifle" legalities, nobody cares if you have a single-shot, bolt-action repeater, or a semi-auto.
The only legal restriction for rifles in general is that the barrel be no less than 16.000 inches, measured from the face of the bolt. (A cynic would say that since federal rulers are shorter than anybody else's, be sure you have around 1/8" or 1/4" extra, as insurance.)

Check the "links" at the TFL homepage. The National Rifle Association's site has beaucoup info. (Worth joining, by the way; for your interest, I'd suggest choosing their American Rifleman magazine.)

Hope this helps,

Art
 
There are two sets of laws, one federal, and one state.

Federal law allows an 18 year old to buy a rifle, both semi-aito ( with certian cosmetic restrictions) and bolts/levers freely. It also bans the making of magazines over ten rounds, though old ones(pre 1996 manufacture or contract) are around and even imported to a limited extent, and can be used in many rifles, shotguns and handguns.

I don't know what the laws in the state of Indiana are like. Your best bet is to search for your state government online, and look up the firearms laws.

Be careful about the "advice" you may get in a gunshop...many times people will try to take advantage of those who know not.

You might want to repost your question so that it pertains to Indiana and get more responses.
 
Welcome.

I have a thread running under legal and political - UK Firearms, it ( admittedly long winded ) will cover a number of your queries viz a viz Europe - the UK anyway.

The rationale behind what is and isn't banned in the UK is more political than anything. The most recent - Handguns, was the direct result of their use by an evil person - a FAC holder - that murdered many primary school children - specifically using handguns.

In terms of the US - others are better placed to advise you - particularly for Indiana etc.

Your note contains interesting comments - some indicate a lack of knowledge - that is fine, everyone starts somewhere - and was the reason for your enquiry. Certainly long-range in the context of these pages is usually considerably beyond the effective range of any air-rifle!

Remember, everyone has their own view. Seek to acquire knowledge and look to evolve rather than get there all in one step. Then you will find you can largely answer your own questions.

Use this forum as a starting point. Thereafter I would recommend seeking out an experienced shooter - try for the middle ground - not a zero humour gravel-belly nor a ninja warrior wannabe. Knowledge - then find your own position in the scheme of things.

Many people start with an air-rifle - I did ( age 5 ). It is an excellent way to learn fundamentals - particularly follow-through ( as the time from trigger press to pellet leave barrel is much longer than with most centre-fire rifles ). It is also RELATIVELY safer ( note the emphasis ).

I have actively shot for thirty years plus and consider myself a keen novice - always ready, willing and able to learn.

Happy to assist further if I can.
 
Izzy/ Art

Too fast on the draw for me!

I don't want to offend or get drawn into RKBA issues. But looking in ( with envy in many instances ) from the UK at a number of the postings, there seems to be quite a number of people stumbling along into firearms and the development of their skill.

NRA suggestion was ideal and most replies on these pages very helpful etc. However, is there no mentor or buddy system going over there?

As the originator of this thread, our guy here should be viewed as the most important member of the shooting fraternity - tomorrow's shooter.
 
Thanx for the welcome and replies.

Yes, lack of knowledge is certainly there since I'm new to this whole thing. I just have this interest, yet the idea of owning a rifle that could shoot up to a kilometer scares me to tell you the truth.

And the idea that people can own such rifle scares me too. Yet that debate belongs to the ethics-like forum.

I'll have a look at Indiana gun laws.

I'm considering sticking to air rifles because of the fact that real guns are just too alien to me (though I have a great interest for them).

I guess it helps if you know an experienced shooter that guides you through.

Not much can be done in life without some sort of initial guidance.

Silent Shadow
 
Welcome to the US, and to the Firing Line! May you enjoy both. It's true that the US is much less restrictive of firearms ownership than most other nations. With that freedom however, comes a great degree of responsibility. Firearms can be very dangerous if used improperly, and you cannot un-make a hole once you've made it. If you are new to the sport of shooting, I highly reccommend that you seek training from a qualified source before purchasing anything. The NRA is a good source for this, and can at least answer a lot of your questions. If I can make one other reccommendation, follow the "Firearms Safety" link at the top of this page. It's a good source of info.

Safety First, Last, and Always!

Now to Legalities. I guess the first question is: What's your residency status? Are you a citizen? If not, I'm afraid you're pretty much out of luck. I copied the passage below from the FAQ page at our Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (BATF). Here's the address:

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b14



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
(B14) May foreign visitors and other aliens legally in the United states buy firearms? [Back]


An alien legally in the United states who has been admitted into the country under a nonimmigrant visa is generally prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms and a licensee may not lawfully transfer firearms to such alien. In addition, a foreign visitor is not a resident of a state and, therefore, may not purchase and take delivery of a firearm in the United states. A foreign visitor may purchase a firearm and have it exported by a licensee. The licensee must obtain an export license from the State Department for this type of transaction.


In addition, an alien legally in the United states would have a state of residence and may acquire firearms in that state only if he or she is residing
in that state and has resided in that state continuously for at least 90 days prior to the purchase. Aliens acquiring firearms from licensees are required
to prove their identity and residency by presenting government-issued photo identification and substantiating documentation showing that he or she has
resided in the state continuously for the 90-day period, for example, utility bills, lease agreements, credit card statements, pay stubs or other documents
from the purchaser's place of employment. [18 U. S. C. 921, 922( b)( 3), (d), (g), 27 CFR 178.11, 178.99( a)]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

If you're a citizen however, you are free to purchase most rifles with little trouble (at least for a while yet). There are waiting periods, registration requirements, and other hinderances in a lot of places, and there is a national background check that must be performed prior to any purchase. There are also certain rifles that have been banned for looking too much like those used by the military. Other than that, Shop around, decide what you like, find a safe and legal place to shoot it, buy and enjoy!

We have some serious efforts going on right now to undermine civil rights in the US, and one of the things they keep trying to outlaw is the "Sniper Rifle" as they call it. Since that could include almost all rifles when defined loosly enough, we get a bit touchy about calling anything by that name, unless it is a rifle actually used for sniping. Those are pretty rare in the US. The same rifle in anyone elses hands is more properly known as a Precision Rifle, because most of us would never think of using it to snipe at anyone.
I hope I've been of some help to you, and that you enjoy your stay at TFL


Hey Indianna TFLr's! Anybody willing to take Silent Shadow out for a day of familiarization at a local range?
 
If you are a resident and you are over 18, you can buy and own a rifle that is capable of shooting well at long distance. I We urge caution in using the term "sniper rifle". A "sniper rifle" is nothing more than an accurate hunting rifle. When you use the words sniper, it tends to give people a negative meaning. For example, you are unsure if you could possess a "sniper" rifle because images of death and destruction come to mind. The fact is yes you may purchace a bolt action or semi-auto rifle that is capable of great accuracy out to long distances. The thing is the gun is not evil. The gun is only as good as the shooter. It doesn't matter if you have the most accurate gun in the world. If you don't know how to use it, it won't be very effective whether you use it for self-defense, or for shooting paper.

So my recommendation, don't call it a "sniper" rifle any longer. You have an interest in an accurate long range rifle. Should you pursue your interest in an accurate long range rifle? YES!!! I am fairly young myself (24) and I have an accurate long range rifle that I have had for two years. I bought a Remington 700 Varmint Synthetic and put a Leupold 6.5-20x50mm Long Range Target 30mm tube Scope on it. I painted The Rifle and use it for hunting as well as for shooting at 800, 900, and 1000 yards. It is very accurate and I really, really enjoy shooting it at long range.

The thing to remember is this, there are nothing wrong with these rifles. They are not to be feared. When you tell people about your interest in long range shooting, don't put the fear into them. Don't refer to your gun as a sniper rifle. Tell them that you would like to be able to shoot with enough accuracy to keep your bullets in as small as a group as possible and that the challenge in hitting what you are aiming at at 1000 yards is exciting and fun.

Now, maybe we can find you someone in that area that knows where a Palma or 1000 yard range is and you can go check it out at one of their shoots. There is a good chance you are going to get hooked. It is a lot of fun. Just be warned, the hobby you are about to start is expensive. My rifle when it was all said and done with all of my accessories was about $2000. Then you figure that the reloading setup I got was about $2000 and then the components for making ammo is around $500 for a thousand rounds. It is all so worth it thought to be able to say that I shot a 435-16X at my last palma match in the F Class. That means I hit the 10" circle at 800, 900, and 1000 yards 16 times out of 45 shots. When I didn't hit the center ring, I hit the 10 ring (20") at least 15 times and the rest of the time I wasn't too far off. And the thing is, I don't think that is too hard. I think it is just a matter of knowing your gun and squeezing the trigger.

Ok, you can see how much I like long range shooting and I think you will like it too. Stick around here and we will help you get started. Good luck.
 
T-Rex may have clarified things for you on the residency front etc.

Everyone fears the unknown ( the sane ones! ) and conquering that it part of life's challenges.

However, as I understand it, the US is about freedom - only when it's lost do we understand what all the 'fuss' was about. You are ( subject to the law ) free to make your own choice.

Don't be discouraged, think it over. If you are contemplating it enough to join up and post here, I suspect you've already been bitten by the bug. At the very least have a look at some other websites and if you can go visit a local club.

C'mon you US shooters, give this guy a hand.
 
And the idea that people can own such rifle scares me too
Click to expand...

In 1994 there were 38,505 firearm-related deaths. These included:
     - over 17,800 firearm-related homicides
     - over 18,700 firearm-related suicides
     - over 1,300 unintentional deaths related to firearms.

unless you are planning on shooting yourself with a rifle,
why are you scared of rifles? Those 18,000 homicides were prolly not with a rifle.

be afraid of cars

Of the 41,967 traffic fatalities in 1997, 39% were alcohol-related (i.e., either the driver of the crash vehicle or an affected person not in a vehicle (e.g., a pedestrian or a bicyclist) had a blood alcohol concentration of at least 0.01 gram per deciliter (g/dL).1
* The U.S. is making progress toward reducing alcohol-related traffic fatalities. The 16,189 alcohol-related traffic fatalities in 1997 represent a 32% reduction from the 23,641 alcohol-related fatalities in 1987.1
* From 1985 to 1995 for persons ages 15-34 years, the alcohol-related traffic fatality rate declined 32% while the nonalcohol traffic fatality rate declined 13%.2
* Each year in the U.S. there are over 120 million episodes of impaired driving among adults.3
* About 1.4 million arrests are made annually for driving under the influence of alcohol or narcotics (1 in every 123 licensed drivers).4

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/fafacts.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/drving.htm
 
Well, thank you soo much for the advice and info, but I guess my quest ends here as I'm on a student visa at a university, and thus by that law that was posted above I can't own a rifle.

I mean, I guess I can go for air rifles, but it seems like such a big jump from a 1000 yards to 50 yeards (if that).

:(

And yes, I didn't mean to use the term "sniper" rifle. Long-range bolt action precision rifle I guess would be better no? ;)
 
Some mesages out of cinc - I must type fast ( or, I know type less! ) so forgive muddle.

Would add - $2000 plus is for relatively special kit ( I too have a Remmy VS ) - not essential to start, don't be put off by price/ cost. Once hooked, things have a strange way of coming right.

Firearms deaths tend to occur to those without knowledge - think about it. There was a big ho-ha in the UK over firearms injuries a while back - turned out casulty departments included cases where people slipped with a screwdrive whilst tightening stock screws etc! On analysis that kind of injury accounted for ALL the statistics in the period!

Later report confirmed more people have died putting on socks ( in the UK ) over the last twenty years than in all firearms related incidents - by a huge margin.

Goes to show that really the only thing to fear are statistics!
 
Note that the second half of the law says you CAN own a rifle if you can prove to the dealer that you have been a resident of that state for at least 90 days. You can always sell it back when your time as a student is over. Just a thought.
 
Well this is my second year...

I guess I really have to talk to the rifle club here. I emailed them, they take a while to respond for some reason ;)

Something I've always wanted to do was hunt in one of those beautiful sceneries in winter, where everything is white, there is no wind, everything is so still, so beautiful, guided by an expert and taught how to hunt and shoot.

The scenery is one of the things that attracted me the most, the scenery and the thrill of stalking...of hunting...
 
Welcome, Silent Shadow (as said) to both,

Most every aspect of your question was already covered pretty well. I will say that most any center fire rifle cartridge is capable of shooting a bullet for several miles - & it can kill at that range. Hitting a specific target is another matter entirely though. Nonetheless, it can cause harm at incredible distances.

That's why there's the "be certain of your backstop" rule. 1 of 4 of The Big Four safety rules. If you maintain all aspects of these 4 basic points, you will never cause harm, to another & may enjoy your sport in peace.

That it can kill at way-off distances shouldn't be any consideration except for the safety aspects. Take care of these very few basics & you will be OK.

I'll agree with a coupla posts above = get in touch with some "locals" & at worse case, use their rifles. You'll have an instant fraternity & I'm sure they'll help walk you through the process.

Too, other than getting in touch with NRA, you may want to explore your state-level (more) activist groups) such as an afilliate of the GOA, etc.
 
(while I last posted .... )

SS,

I really do admire your wanting to experience the silent aspects of the winter woods & the stalking. One of the very rare beauties many never, ever see - even our own "hunters."

I hope that you can dial into a group that will allow you to do such as you wish.

Worst comes to worse, you can always "play act" by merely walking through the winter woods - even without a firearm. If you are "in tune" with the woods, you will see game.

It is a very delicate balance of walking/not-walking, seeing/not-seeing, getting closer & (sometimes) watching your intended "friend" scoot away. Think of a pebble thrown into a lake & its concentric rings ... you are those very same "disturbances" when in the woods. Minimize, or eliminate (impossible) those circles, & you are one with what you seek - sort of.

Got a chance to come to Colorado?, & I'll walk you through some winter woods for a week or so & we - will - play.
 
Would definately recommend you at least give it a try.

I know very little of firearms law in Italy. However, several Italian shooters come over to Scotland and go out ( annually ) with the professional stalker I know in Morayshire.

They have their own rifles - so ownership is possible. I seem to remember something about military calibres being outlawed - but maybe am confusing with pistols.

Furthest I got on my studies was Stoke -On -Trent, Staffordshire! You really seem a globe trotter.

If your interest remains, you may ( under current law ) come stalking in Scotland. You would shoot under what are called the Estate Rifle provisions. Effectively, you use the rifle of the owner of the shooting rights ( or his/ her employee ) and under very close supervision.

This can very from very good - Blaser/ Sauer etc to something that may have seen action at the relief of Mafeking!

Before going out, you would have to demonstrate reasonable skill - the standard minimum being to hit a four inch target three time ( out of three ) at 100 yds. In addition you would have pass scrutiny from the stalker/ ghillie - the most effective physcological screening known. They would carry the rifle, handing it to you only once finally in position for a shot.

Choosing a Highland estate would very likely guarantee snow if you came in December- January. Maybe not as grand/ deep/ cold at the Rockies etc.
 
The Civilian Marksmanship Program specifically encourages young people to learn riflery. They use bolt-action .22 rifles, but I think it's up to the local club to decide how old you must be to compete in the adult matches. The adult matches typically use M1 Garands, but are open to most types of rifles. Many clubs have rifles that members may use. You can find the names of your local clubs here.
 
Oakleaf, If I go hunting in the winter woods I would rather carry my own rifle and do my thing (with some guidance and help of course) but I might as well not do anything if it's all under "rules" and stuff.

labgrade, that is the part of hunting that attracts me the most.
 
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