The Great Gun Grab...not the how, but WHY?

I'd say the true reasoning behind anti-gun beliefs is goin to vary from person to person. Some citizens truly believe that we could get rid of a large amount of crime and violence by eliminating guns. Some in politics are motivated by the belief that passing worthless legislation in the name of "protecting our children" will garner them more voted in the next election. And still some likely believe the we need a full on socialist utopia and getting rid of guns will help further that goal.

Personally I'm a realist. Violence, crime, and murder existed long before guns were invented and will exist long after they become obsolete. Nothing we do is ever going to stop it, and I would much rather be armed with weapons equal to or greater than those who wish me harm than be armed with lessor weapons or not armed at all.
 
Some of it is projection -- people who believe that they would behave in violent ways if they had access to a firearm. Those folks believe they themselves are good people, and can't believe that someone else's internal world could look different than their own, so they need to ban guns to keep guns out of the hands of good people who would obviously become violent if they had guns.

Some of it is cultural blindness -- people who believe that the way they live is the way everyone should live. Or just that the way they live is the way everyone does live. These are the wealthy people who propose million-dollar insurance policies for gun owners, without realizing that most people don't have $2000 a year for premiums on a policy like that.

Some of it is classist, racist, or elitist -- people who think it's okay for rural white people to have guns, but not for inner city black people. This one gets dressed up in various ways and explained in more palatable terms, but it boils down to making sure that "those people" don't get guns. These are the wealthy people who support million-dollar insurance policies for gun owners, fully aware that it will keep poor people from legally owning guns.

Some of it is rainbow unicorn-fart denials -- people who think the world has moved beyond violence and if we just all give up our guns, the lion & the lamb will lie down together and peace will reign throughout the land. These are the people who cannot learn from history and who scream "Godwiiiiiiin!" at the slightest effort to educate them.

Some just want to seem reasonable, and don't realize they are being manipulated by people with other agendas.

A lot of it is fear and paranoia -- people who believe that everyone is out to get them, and that therefore they need to defang everyone to keep themselves safe. This is the one that drives most of the anti-gun politicians, such as the city councilman here in Washington who stomped out of a public meeting because one of the citizens had the nerve to show up legally armed.

And finally, there are the people who absolutely do not believe in nor respect human rights, except whatever lip service might be necessary to get into office. These people want to take away firearms so that they are free to trample others' rights in other areas. To quote Rep. Henry Waxman from several years back, "If someone is so fearful that, that they're going to start using their weapons to protect their rights, makes me very nervous that these people have these weapons at all!"

pax
 
There are really people who not only believe they can make a better world, they are in the business of doing it. Control is the method they will use and they will pull any stunt to get it.

I saw an article where they hoped to be able to put electronic devices on cereal boxes and such that would encourage you to do things their way. "Eat healthy because it will save all of us money fixing you if you do, but your medical insurance goes up if you don't. We don't want to pay for your bad habits, etc."

It's the same as Progressive Ins. Company's new toy, that module they plug into your car called "Snapshot". It supposed to monitor how you drive so you get a lower premium. It's voluntary now, they are looking to get a good population using it voluntarily first. Then they will use numbers to justify making it mandatory if you want their Insurance, and other companies follow suite. Soon everyone has to do it.

Now you have a nanny in your car that will give you kibbles and bits if your good and smack you on your bill if you are bad. Oh, and wait till the Fed mandates them so they can add some more government regulation on top as well. All of this to "make us all safer".

Of course the States need tax revenue so why not just get your speeding tickets without all that Police officer radar fuss hey?

These ideas and toys are not the future, they are right now today, it's happening.

This is just a view of the better world they are working hard to create
 
you cannot be totally controlled if you are armed, look at what is being done in the line of the constitution. It is being reinterpreted the way they want it. Yes the government wants everyone disarmed so you have no recourse to defend yourself from their agenda.
Just remember the 2nd amendment, armed citizenry "militia" to defend against a tyrannical government, enemies both foreign and domestic. When you loose your guns, you loose your right to freedom.
 
Great response, Pax. (I especially like "rainbow unicorn-fart denials." :D)

Seriously -- you did hit on many of the factors that operate here. Well done.

I think, though, that there's one thing that can't be stressed enough: everyone, no matter their politics, is attracted to simple, one-step solutions to complex problems.

There's no getting around the fact that 21st-century America has a very violent culture. Violence (military and otherwise) is glorified as a way to solve problems. Many, many people like playing violent video games, and many more like watching violence on TV -- the message in much of this "entertainment" is that the good guy wins, and he wins by means of violence. While overall rates of violent crime in the U.S. have gone down since the early 90's, they're still a lot higher than in many other developed countries, and far higher than any thinking person would like them to be.

I'm not suggesting any cause-and-effect relationships here; all I'm doing is pointing out that our culture is one in which violence is highly valued and widely practiced.

There is no one, simple answer to why this is so -- but that doesn't stop people from wanting one. There are lots of well-meaning folks who genuinely believe that the problem is "gun violence," and that any gun control measures are "at least a good start" at getting rid of the problem. One can sometimes reason with such people, and I do think that's a worthwhile effort. (Not to mention taking them to a gun range. :)). Politicians capitalize on this desire for one-step solutions -- many are cynical in doing so, others are not.

Most people on our side of the gun-control divide are no different; it's just that they prefer other simplistic solutions. We'd like to believe that all violent criminals are mentally ill... or that psychotropic drugs are to blame for the whole mess... or that "the" solution is more guns in the hands of so-called "good guys." Everyone is a "good guy," though, until they're not -- it's another wild oversimplification to believe that people are naturally divided into "criminals" and "law-abiding citizens."

It's a complex set of problems, with roots in our history, in our definitions of manhood, in social and economic conditions... and in the fact that violence and the fear of violence are very marketable commodities.

All that said... I have to admit that I've changed my mind somewhat in the last couple of months about the idea that the powers-that-be want to disarm the population just on general principles, as one more way to ensure that the powerful stay in power. I used to think that was a bit silly and more than a bit paranoid -- at the moment, I'm not so sure.

pax said:
This one gets dressed up in various ways and explained in more palatable terms, but it boils down to making sure that "those people" don't get guns.
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It's pretty clear that in the eyes of the 1%, we are all "those people."
 
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Thanks, Vanya.

There's one more category. This one makes me sound paranoid to put into words, but here goes. Colorado's Rep. Salazar recently made some comments that really brought this one forward for me.

It's like this: whenever I encounter a man who is obviously afraid that women might use firearms to effectively fight back against rapists and sexual abusers … well, it makes me wonder if he's a sexual predator. A man who so clearly pictures himself being at the dangerous end of a woman's panic on that subject makes me wonder about both his past history and his future plans.

pax
 
All of the above reasons are valid, but for those of us who are religious, the reason has always been the same: Satan is real, and he is hard at work trying to destroy the agency of man (i.e. freedom) just as he always has. He is the master of deception and can make half truths and downright lies seem appealing. One of his most effective techniques is to get people to overlook consequences. Ignorance goes a long way toward blinding people to truth. When much of our society knows more about pop culture than they do about politics, he is clearly winning the battle. Ultimately he will lose the war, but not before a lot of potentially good souls are deceived. Our job is to help educate those who may be on the fence...
 
To me, the immediate reason is partisan political advantage, but the underlying cause of the plan for disarmament is just that : disarming the population. The reasons for disarming us are many, but it's about control, permanent ruling class/elite, and the destruction of American culture and way of life. We stand in their way.
 
pax said:
It's like this: whenever I encounter a man who is obviously afraid that women might use firearms to effectively fight back against rapists and sexual abusers … well, it makes me wonder if he's a sexual predator. A man who so clearly pictures himself being at the dangerous end of a woman's panic on that subject makes me wonder about both his past history and his future plans.
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Nothing paranoid about it. When you think about all the comments from politicians and other public figures of late -- my personal favorite was the gentleman who claimed that if a woman gets pregnant, it wasn't "really" rape -- it's obvious that a lot of men have problems with the idea that women have a right to decide what happens to their bodies, and a right to protect their bodies from harm.
 
wingman said:
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The true liberal mind seeks power and lives to push his/her way of life on others, love abortion but hates the death penalty, hates the keystone pipe line but believes in open borders with huge numbers damaging the environment they also love victims not heroes. IMO no logic to their thinking so it's good enough to simply know they do not want anyone to own guns.
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Seems to me that if you changed the order of the words love and hate you could be talking about us. Truth is most of them are closer to the middle, just like most of us. If you assume that they are all crazy you'll never get to talk to the sane ones.
 
The main issue is about control. We can certainly see how the government is encroaching upon more and more aspects of our personal lives and creating new rules and regulations almost daily. They can only go so far so fast when a good chunk of the population is armed. By "they" I mean many top government officials as well as certain people behind the scenes with a great deal of money. George Soros comes to mind.

Basically there are two types of antis. The first type is the type that truly believes gun control with make this world safer and "protect the children". They have probably never fired a weapon and feel very uncomfortable around them. The swallow what the media tells them hook, line, and sinker. These people can be professors, elementary school teachers, or really just the neighbor across the street.

Then there are the guys at the top who actually pass these laws and they aren't doing it for the children. They aren't afraid of guns and most own them for protection or recreation. They just don't want "us", to have them. They know gun control doesn't reduce crime, the know all the stats and only want to eliminate guns because they stand in the way of their agendas.

And then there is Feinstein who is just crazy.

That's an oversimplified answer but my point is that some people are genuinly convinced that firearms are dangerous to SOCIETY, while others are convinced firearms are dangerous to THEM.
 
The anti-gun psycology still escapes me, especially when there are cities like Chicago, which despite some of the strictest gun control laws on the books anywhere in the nation, is still experiencing rampant gun-related crimes.

I see how the antis will point to their ongoing gun problem as being 'imported', and how some believe that in order to truly eradicate their gun problem, guns must be banned nation wide. The problem I have is that I dont understand how the anti-gun proponent continues to be blind to the premise that it is not the gun that is the real underlying problem, but the person using the gun with malicious intent as being the problem.
 
Heres one.
This has been the anti gun foundation for centuries,and always will be.
The passage in the bible called Isaiha. When swords will be beaten into plowshares and spears into pruning hooks.Gun/sword/arrow/pointy stick-you name it.This is what is behind all of the efforts to stop everything that has ever been on the list of things to stop by the people that want to stop them.
Hunting.Meat.PETA.Drugs.Alcohol.Tobacco.Firearms.The Great War.The Great Depression.Which is all fine but I know the Lord aint comin for my smoke pole any more than he wants my wheelbarrow or my shovel.I will keep mine where I keep everything that I love,as close as possible.
 
From pax:
"It's like this: whenever I encounter a man who is obviously afraid that women might use firearms to effectively fight back against rapists and sexual abusers … well, it makes me wonder if he's a sexual predator. A man who so clearly pictures himself being at the dangerous end of a woman's panic on that subject makes me wonder about both his past history and his future plans."

That's a lottttta congressmen!
 
The Great Gun Grab...not the how, but WHY?
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Because those in office no longer see us as adults.
We're viewed as unruly children that need to be told what to do.

Next stop is we're no longer viewed as children or even people, but, as pets.

Who knows, we may be at the pet stage already...

I know for sure that the politicians in this country stopped seeing us as equals a long time ago.
 
The problem I have is that I dont understand how the anti-gun proponent continues to be blind to the premise that it is not the gun that is the real underlying problem, but the person using the gun with malicious intent as being the problem.
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Because to some ignorant people guns simply look "scary" and "evil". So, they stereotype anyone who has or likes guns with these scary and evil images.

I'm glad I got married later in life. It permitted me to date all kinds of women. One, self-admittedly, was not all that bright. When I finally told her about my guns, her immediate reaction was "Ewwww, guns are evil". The sight of a firearms scared her - sort of like looking at a boogyman. She viewed firearms like some people would view the Devil in person, or a collection of Voodoo dolls. It's as simple (and stupid) as that. I could have talked about "freedom", "2nd Amendment", "counterbalance to tyranny", on and on until you are blue in the face, and all this particular girl cared about was how soon she could have her next smoke (cigarette) and drink. We truly live in a country full of addicts and idiots.
 
Over time, they think that guns will become less and less common, and we will not need to fear violence from those with firearms.
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that is an understandable ignorant fear of many in the general public. But the politicians are working on another premise, and it isn't about setting up a tyranny. it is more simple: the stock and trade of politics for thousand of years is distraction and scapegoating. They cant solve the problem of crime but they can go after the low hanging fruit of legal gun owners
 
So I read that teh national guard in Iowa is training on tactics like clearing a house, riot control etc in an effort to assist the state patrol. Now this sounds like a gun grab kinda plan to me. I only hope I am paranoid and this will not be reality.

The govt is scared of the public, they know we are not all warm and fuzzy with taxes and cost of living so high we cant get ahead. What are they expecting is my question and what will they do to get the public so riled they wish to have us all unarmed?

http://www.southwestiowanews.com/de...cle_918ca16e-7ad7-11e2-b45f-0019bb2963f4.html

added link to the article. It was dated 2-19-2013
 
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My take on the topic is that those people who are anti-gun, most commonly politicians, celebrities, and others do not understand exactly how firearms operate. They are uneducated and have no clue when it comes to firearms-- so they fear it and shun it instead, and want others not to have access to them unless you are Military/LE.

Just look at Feinstein, Brady, and Piers Morgan. They all think all AR/AK's are fully automatic and will "continue to fire as long as you hold the trigger". They do not know, or care to be educated that civilian AR/AK's are semi-auto, and those full-auto/select fire are highly regulated by the ATF and mostly not owned by the general public.

They defend hunting when it comes to shotguns/bolt rifles, and self-defense when it comes to revolvers and low capacity firearms, but are highly against high capacity magazines and "evil features" when those are not the real cause of violence in society.

In short, ignorance and fear is the underlying cause.
 
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