The Ferguson, MO Police Shooting

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And since these two were felons I would bet this cop knew them which is why he probably wouldn't tell 2 kids on their way to the library to move out of the middle of the street.
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Did you assume this or do you have proof that he was?

ST. LOUIS COUNTY – An 18-year-old shot and killed near a Ferguson apartment complex Saturday afternoon had no criminal record, according to the St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney's office
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St. Louis County Prosecutor's office confirmed that Brown had no prior misdemeanors or felonies against him.
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I got these quotes from here
 
Should we go back to 6 rounds in a revolver and 12 more in belt loops.
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Nobody in this thread is saying that. Law enforcement needs the tools to defend themselves and do their jobs. But does that really include Bradleys and MRAPs?

You buy an organization enough expensive toys on the taxpayer dime, and they're going to feel compelled to use them. But are they really necessary?

And as for the reporters working this riot who are arrested or otherwise mistreated by police, I say tough.
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That's exactly the mindset that has caused this issue. The riot was confined to a rather small area centered around the Northwood and Oakmont apartment complexes. It's not as if the whole city was on fire and needed to be placed under martial law.

The police over-reacted, and they violated the civil rights of a great many people who weren't the problem.
 
State of emergency

Seems the MO Highway Patrol singing Kumbaya with the rioters (whoops - "protesters") didn't hold the fort too long. Who'd have thunk it?

Governor Nixon has declared a state of emergency, but the good part is that firearms are not affected in any way:

Missouri Revised Statutes said:
Firearms and ammunition, state of emergency, no restrictions permitted.

44.101. The state, any political subdivision, or any person shall not prohibit or restrict the lawful possession, transfer, sale, transportation, storage, display, or use of firearms or ammunition during an emergency.
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My wife grew up in Florissant (next door to Ferguson) and attended community college in Ferguson. A lot has changed...

Edit: Notice "display". You can carry your AR-15 if you want to. I don't advise it.
 
The police over-reacted, and they violated the civil rights of a great many people who weren't the problem.
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It's safer. People in their own backyards, journalists, and an alderman from St. Louis don't shoot back. Actual looters might.
 
Homerboy wrote;
And even if the patrol car had a camera they only run when the lights come on
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This may be true in some places but, our city's dashcams run on a continuous loop and catalog both front and, rear views throughout the officers entire shift. They also capture audio both inside the car and, on a wireless mic the officer wears.
 
I made the ground rules for this thread clear in post #20. If you found a post of yours has been deleted, it was for good reason.

This situation raises some very important civil-rights questions, and we won't see the discussion derailed by chest-beating and cop-bashing.
 
Thanks Tom.... so back on track...

What are the legal restrictions/authority on the police when dealing with a violent mob?

If a large group of people are gathered, and some become violent, how violent does it have to get, and how many have to be part of the violence, before the police can treat the situation as a violent mob/riot?

It seems that the governor of a state can grant additional powers to the police in the situation of an ongoing violent mob, such as declaring a curfew. Is this power of the governor defined by statute, or by case law?

Jim.

BTW, I drove through the area yesterday afternoon... I would say the national media is blowing it way out of proportion. If I did not know there was a problem, I would have thought it was the school teachers on strike or something.
 
What are the legal restrictions/authority on the police when dealing with a violent mob?
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What makes you think it's any different than any other violent suspect?

If a large group of people are gathered, and some become violent, how violent does it have to get, and how many have to be part of the violence, before the police can treat the situation as a violent mob/riot?
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Well I'd guess they can't target non-violent people, but they're probably not liable if a non-violent gets tagged by accident. Look at all the folks who were hit by ricochet in that NY shooting. The liability usually falls on the people who break the law creating the situation, not on the people trying to enforce the law. Being on the side of the people who make the law helps quite a bit in cases like that, I suspect.
 
Massad Ayoob posted this today on his blog:
...By the time the truth came out, most of America seemed to still believe that the deceased was a harmless, innocent victim of racism murdered by a monster who deserved to be lynched. That meme seems to be getting a repeat in Missouri.

Only days later, do we learn how savagely the officer was beaten by the physically huge man he shot. And that very shortly before the incident, the innocent college boy had performed a strong-arm robbery at a convenience store, caught on surveillance video. (This, of course, would not do, so last night looters ravaged that particular convenience store.) It has been reported that that Facebook images of Brown exist, flashing gang signs indicating membership in one of the nation’s most feared street gang, the Bloods....
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There's a lot of information still missing and/or to be sorted out. As is often the case, things might not be as they initially seem.
 
I think the issue of the alleged theft of cigars is irrelevant. He was accused but because he was unable to defend himself against that accusation, shouldn't he be assumed innocent?

Pictures of a person dressed in red colors does not make them a member of the Bloods. Nor does flashing gang signs gain you admittance to those gangs either. This kid may not have been a model student but he also had no criminal history. That's not a claim many (any?) violent gang members can make.
 
I think the issue of the alleged theft of cigars is irrelevant. He was accused but because he was unable to defend himself against that accusation, shouldn't he be assumed innocent?
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His family has admitted that was him on the store video.

So Brown knew he had just robbed the store, but the cop didn't -- but he didn't know that the cop didn't know. That could explain a lot.

What we still don't know -- at least I don't know; I haven't been keeping up this weekend -- is had he surrendered and the enraged cop murdered him? Or did he rush the cop and the cop defended himself? (I'm talking about the shots away from the car)

In either case, I doubt race had anything to do with it. I also don't give any credibility to the "gang" hand gestures thing.
 
I haven't paid too much attention to this b/c until more info come out it is just a lot of heated speculation.

On gang signs...
I lived in a small midwest city with limited gang activity for a bit.
At one point I was shown some training material related to the local enforcement of anti-gang regulations including photographs of gang signs. It was ridiculous. It was if they crammed every a picture of every sign from every gang in the US onto a few grainy pages. Almost any gesture imaginable was reasonably close to one of the represented gang signs.

Any police department, no matter the size is either stupid or ashamed of their incompetence if they aren't using dash cams at a minimum. One or two avoided lawsuits will pay for body cams for a large department. Of course, these officers were pulling in mad overtime and trying out all their surplus toys, so they probably prefer it that way.
 
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The decriptions of the autopsy diagram don't make sense to me.
Dr. Baden said that while Mr. Brown was shot at least six times, only three bullets were recovered from his body. But he has not yet seen the X-rays showing where the bullets were found, which would clarify the autopsy results. Nor has he had access to witness and police statements.

Dr. Baden provided a diagram of the entry wounds, and noted that the six shots produced numerous wounds. Some of the bullets entered and exited several times, including one that left at least five different wounds.
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One bullet left 5 wounds??? :confused:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/u...he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?ref=us&_r=0

He was not shot in the back, so the report that he was running away when shot was false.
Mr. Brown, 18, was also shot four times in the right arm, he said, adding that all the bullets were fired into his front.
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Can someone help interpret the diagram?
 
I really hope the news coverage about police militarization starts to make people think. I believe it it will shift the focus of gun control at least somewhat and maybe get people to think that the second amendment is still relevant.

Also if the police were to start a violent war with people... Their body armor is only made to stop pistol and assault rifle rounds, I doubt it could stop a full size hunting cartridge. There's a reason people didn't wear BA before Vietnam.
 
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