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the downside of Real ID Act
- Thread starter alan
- Start date
Downside? Hell, what's the upside of the "Real ID Act"?
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/6/30/122707.shtmlAlleged Fake ID Kingpin Arrested in Mexico
Bruce Mandelblit
Friday, June 30, 2006
On June 17, 2006, one of Immigration and Custom Enforcement's (ICE) most wanted fugitives was arrested in Guadalajara, Mexico, by Mexican law enforcement authorities assisted by agents from the ICE Foreign Attaché office.
A federal grand jury in Denver indicted this ICE "Top 10 Most Wanted" fugitive last July on charges of conspiracy, fraud, misuse of visas, and money laundering. The indictment alleges that this suspect is a founding member and the leader of a criminal organization engaged in the nationwide manufacture and distribution of counterfeit immigration and identification documents.
The investigation that led to this major arrest began in October 2000 when ICE agents began investigating the sale and distribution of counterfeit identity documents in Denver. During the course of the investigation, this foreign national was identified as the alleged leader of a large-scale criminal organization involved in manufacturing and distributing counterfeit identity documents, including resident alien cards, Social Security cards, Mexican Matricula Consular ID cards, driver's licenses and identity documents from various states of Mexico and the United States.
The investigation revealed that this criminal organization has allegedly been involved in manufacturing and distributing counterfeit identity documents in numerous cities throughout the United States. For more information on this arrest, criminal indictment and ICE investigation, log on to www.ice.gov.
Sadly, this is just one example of the current ubiquitous nature of phony identification that floods our country, and weakens our national security, each and every day.
While the "immigration reform" debate continues in Congress, countless people, right now, are using fake identification to do everything from simply getting a job to committing serious crimes, including ID theft and even potential acts of terrorism.
One of the keys to any successful immigration reform plan is the assurance of secure identification documents. Without highly tamper-resistant IDs, the underpinning of any new immigration law might be at risk. At this very moment, virtually anywhere in the United States where there are communities of illegal immigrants, you will likely find a flourishing underground trade in selling high-quality phony identification, including bogus driver's licenses and Social Security cards.
One of the keys to any successful immigration reform plan is the assurance of secure identification documents. Without highly tamper-resistant IDs, the underpinning of any new immigration law might be at risk. At this very moment, virtually anywhere in the United States where there are communities of illegal immigrants, you will likely find a flourishing underground trade in selling high-quality phony identification, including bogus driver's licenses and Social Security cards.
Where are the illegals going to get original, genuine documents for the Real ID card? Your link showed that all documentation is possible to forge. American citizens are the ones that will have to give their real identity, illegals can be anybody they say they are.
badbob
JuanCarlos
New member
Where are the illegals going to get original, genuine documents for the Real ID card? Your link showed that all documentation is possible to forge. American citizens are the ones that will have to give their real identity, illegals can be anybody they say they are.
That, or it will just be a giant PITA for citizens to get their first "Real ID" and nearly impossible for illegals.
I certainly could be wrong in the following, anyone feel free to show the error in my thinking however the following comes through to me.
1. It was the bureaucrats whose screwing around led to the debacle that turned out to be "9/11" as it has come to be known.
2. This Read ID business is just another facet of that old bureaucratic game, the one called We asked for more, and no matter how much more you gave us, it wasn't enough. Of course, it never was "enough", nor would it ever be.
3. When Real ID falls on it's face, it will be the citizens of this country who end up paying the bills, and the bills, expressed in additional losses of rights, liberties and freedom will be significant. Of course, those who foisted this scam off on the people will have gone on to other things, bigger and better, for them, things.
4. Finally, given sufficient desire, encouragement and or payment, and the use of available technology, are there any ID's that cannot or will not be faked. I think not, but as mentioned at the outset, I could certainly be wrong.
5. Given that the ultimate fault lies in and with "government" why does it seem that almost nobody seems willing to pin that particular tail on the donkey?
1. It was the bureaucrats whose screwing around led to the debacle that turned out to be "9/11" as it has come to be known.
2. This Read ID business is just another facet of that old bureaucratic game, the one called We asked for more, and no matter how much more you gave us, it wasn't enough. Of course, it never was "enough", nor would it ever be.
3. When Real ID falls on it's face, it will be the citizens of this country who end up paying the bills, and the bills, expressed in additional losses of rights, liberties and freedom will be significant. Of course, those who foisted this scam off on the people will have gone on to other things, bigger and better, for them, things.
4. Finally, given sufficient desire, encouragement and or payment, and the use of available technology, are there any ID's that cannot or will not be faked. I think not, but as mentioned at the outset, I could certainly be wrong.
5. Given that the ultimate fault lies in and with "government" why does it seem that almost nobody seems willing to pin that particular tail on the donkey?
I can't argue with any of your points Alan.
It's not just the US, they same thing is happening in Britain. Of course the reasons they give are different. At least the Brits are resisting.
Link:http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1626768.ece
It's not just the US, they same thing is happening in Britain. Of course the reasons they give are different. At least the Brits are resisting.
Link:http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1626768.ece
badbobFrom The Sunday Times
April 8, 2007
‘Millions to rebel’ over ID cards
Robert Winnett and David Leppard
The government is predicting that some 15m people will revolt against Tony Blair’s controversial ID card scheme by refusing to produce the new cards or provide personal data on demand.
The forecast is made in documents released by the Home Office under the Freedom of Information Act. The papers show ministers expect national protests similar to the poll tax rebellions of the Thatcher era, with millions prepared to risk criminal prosecution.
Opposition MPs said the new documents proved their case that the programme would never work. David Davis, the shadow home secretary, said: “This will cripple the system. Fifteen million is a massive number. What the Home Office is accepting in private, but refuses to accept in public, is that a massive number of ordinary law-abiding citizens simply will not go along with their scheme.”
Davis, whose party’s policy is to scrap the cards, added: “This will render it completely useless as a security or check mechanism of any sort.”
The documents, quietly released during parliament’s Easter break, also show that the government is planning to make ID cards compulsory in 2014, despite the expected revolt.
The first cards are due in 2009, alongside new passports. Labour has said it will make the scheme compulsory if it wins the next election.
Anyone who claims that a system is "secure" forgets about the people who are trusted with using the system. There are very few people who cannot be bribed, the only issue being price. For most people, that price is quite high. Search around a bit and you WILL eventualy find someone who needs/wants the money badly enough and will accept your price. Once that happens, the system is broken.
badbob posted the following (excerpt)
From The Sunday Times
April 8, 2007
‘Millions to rebel’ over ID cards
Robert Winnett and David Leppard
The government is predicting that some 15m people will revolt against Tony Blair’s controversial ID card scheme by refusing to produce the new cards or provide personal data on demand.
The forecast is made in documents released by the Home Office under the Freedom of Information Act. The papers show ministers expect national protests similar to the poll tax rebellions of the Thatcher era, with millions prepared to risk criminal prosecution.
-----------------
Thank goodness for those plucky Brits. As for those who do not protest, as has been noted previously, "may your chains rest lightly on your shoulders".
From The Sunday Times
April 8, 2007
‘Millions to rebel’ over ID cards
Robert Winnett and David Leppard
The government is predicting that some 15m people will revolt against Tony Blair’s controversial ID card scheme by refusing to produce the new cards or provide personal data on demand.
The forecast is made in documents released by the Home Office under the Freedom of Information Act. The papers show ministers expect national protests similar to the poll tax rebellions of the Thatcher era, with millions prepared to risk criminal prosecution.
-----------------
Thank goodness for those plucky Brits. As for those who do not protest, as has been noted previously, "may your chains rest lightly on your shoulders".
The chip people are talking about is RFID technology. It's the same type of chip that alerts Wal-Mart greeters that the cashier didn't deactivate or remove the tag off your item.
It's totally passive and does not emit a signal until it's interrogated by a scanner and it's very short range. (The government can't track you by satellite so take off your tin-foil hat) An echo bounces back to to the scanner with coded information. Credit-card companies are using this technology for the "speed-pass" type card that you just wave in front of the cash register.
Criminals are already using portable scanners in crowds to pick up credit-card numbers from purses and wallets. It's electronic pick-pocketing and you won't know about it until your credit card statements show up or you check your credit report.
It's totally passive and does not emit a signal until it's interrogated by a scanner and it's very short range. (The government can't track you by satellite so take off your tin-foil hat) An echo bounces back to to the scanner with coded information. Credit-card companies are using this technology for the "speed-pass" type card that you just wave in front of the cash register.
Criminals are already using portable scanners in crowds to pick up credit-card numbers from purses and wallets. It's electronic pick-pocketing and you won't know about it until your credit card statements show up or you check your credit report.
"It's the same type of chip that alerts Wal-Mart greeters that the cashier didn't deactivate or remove the tag off your item."
Not for most items in stores.
An actual RFID tag is still to expensive for individual items.
The store systems use ferro resonant technology.
When the small metal strips in the tag are in the field on the way out the door they create a signal that the system picks up. The most common is ultrasonic pick up from the metal actually vibrating.
The toll collection transponder is an actual RFID tag, is the 'quick pay' at gas stations, and a number of debit cards that you 'wave and pay'.
When present in the correct frequency RF field they actually rectify the field to get power and then transmit their data as a short burst.
Increasing the field strength increases the range that you can 'turn on' the tag and get it to send data.
Most of the time the tag does not contain anything but a serial number that the system has to look up.
The real ID proposal will embed actual data in the device.
Not for most items in stores.
An actual RFID tag is still to expensive for individual items.
The store systems use ferro resonant technology.
When the small metal strips in the tag are in the field on the way out the door they create a signal that the system picks up. The most common is ultrasonic pick up from the metal actually vibrating.
The toll collection transponder is an actual RFID tag, is the 'quick pay' at gas stations, and a number of debit cards that you 'wave and pay'.
When present in the correct frequency RF field they actually rectify the field to get power and then transmit their data as a short burst.
Increasing the field strength increases the range that you can 'turn on' the tag and get it to send data.
Most of the time the tag does not contain anything but a serial number that the system has to look up.
The real ID proposal will embed actual data in the device.