The Democrats win one for a change, at the expense of the Boy Scouts

P

Patrick Graham

Moderator
Seething about their openly gay constituents being denied access to the Boy Scouts the legal arm of the left wing, the ACLU, has continued to dog the youth organization.

In an effort to force the Scouts to put homosexual predators into leadership positions the ACLU has sued Department of Defense, the Department of Housing and Urban Development, and the Chicago Board of Education.

It looks like they aren't going to stop until they can get their hands on those kinds.

From the Indy Star.


Pentagon to cut off Boy Scouts from bases

By MIKE ROBINSON
Associated Press Writer

CHICAGO (AP) -- The Pentagon has agreed to warn military bases worldwide not to directly sponsor Boy Scout troops, partially resolving claims that the government has engaged in religious discrimination by supporting a group that requires members to believe in God.

The settlement announced Monday is part of a series of legal challenges in recent years over how closely the government should be aligned with the Boy Scouts of America, a venerable organization that boasts a membership of more than 3.2 million members.

Civil liberties advocates have set their sights on the organization's policies because the group bans openly gay scout leaders and compels members to swear an oath of duty to God.

 
I don't want to get in to the gay issue, but The Boy Scouts of America could be a tremendous asset to promoting the 2nd Ammendment. Unfortunately, I don't think they are as relevant anymore.


I've seen first hand that the lack of involvement by fathers in the Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts is leading it to its demise. All of my kids are going to be Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts and I plan on being involved (and making sure everyone goes for their Marksmen merit badges). :D

Some of my earliest memories of handling firearms was with a 22lr single shot bolt action in Scouts.

I wish I heard more you people saying, "Be Prepared".
 
boy scouts

If the scouts wish to keep out homosexuals as well as those who do not believe in god the answer is simple. Become a private not-for-profit group and do not accept any tax dollars to support it.
 
This thread is going to have to stay related to civil liberties or the establishment clause to stay open. Any deviation into homosexuality or religious proselytization will be cause for closure. :)

-Dave
 
I'm in San Francisco on business. Yesterday I saw a bumpersticker on an SUV that read, "Intolerance will not be tolerated!"
 
OS I like those T-shirts.

I don't get it. The only people getting "hurt" are the kids. Somebody on one side or the other is going to have to say let's figure this out so that the "kids" can have a good experience. We did not have a lot of positive things to do when I was younger, my mom became a den mother and opened a scout troop. We had a varitey of cultures and colors, kids with single moms, and single dads. We had some fun, and I am sure we earned a "scout" knife and went on some field trips out to the country to take hayrides and see cows chickens, and turkeys(a turkey can hit you in the head very hard if you pick it up). If there is anything I have heard that is constant in the country and city about kids getting in trouble it is boredom.

I thought the scouts was a private club? Is there a page that gives a brief History of the scouts. TIA
 
Become a private not-for-profit group and do not accept any tax dollars to support it.
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The last information I had was that the Boy Scouts of America was a private group, and a quick check of the funding section of the BSA web-site makes no mention of tax dollars.

As far as legally, in the BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA et al. v. DALE case from 2000, the Supreme Court affirmed that the Boy Scouts of America was a private group; specifically quoted from that case:
Petitioners are the Boy Scouts of America and its Monmouth Council (collectively, Boy Scouts). The Boy Scouts is a private, not-for-profit organization engaged in instilling its system of values in young people.
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Highlights are mine.

I would be very interested in any information you have which contradicts this.

LawDog
 
Unfortunately, I don't think they are as relevant anymore.
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More to it than just the issues already discussed. As a former scout parent what I have seen over the last 2 decades is that the major problem with scouting is not scouting per se. In many districts there is no sense of community and no local schools and little sense of family in the vast majority of homes.

To meet dubious 'desegregation' rules children are bused across town. And even in towns without that burden the smaller community schools have been closed in a wave of consolidation. Nowadays a small school has 300 kids per grade level, more reminiscent of a cattle feedlot than an educational institution. Kids are segregated by age to the point where their development of friendships with brothers and sisters just a year older or younger is viewed as odd. Concerning religion, well, most kids are growing up in secular households nowadays where the only worship is that of the one eyed god in the living room, so that isn't really a factor.


So IMHO the ACLU is just an opportunistic parasite attacking an already weakened social system.
 
Boy Scouts and hunting

I read recently in field and stream magazine, that a scout troop in michigan I believe, is starting up a hunting merit badge program. The scout must take a hunter safety course, write something, learn about the game he is hunting and then go hunt it, "with a camera, no killing allowed"! When the scouts cave in to that degree to the anti-hunters, maybe they are not relevant anymore...? :confused:
 
In an effort to force the Scouts to put homosexual predators into leadership positions
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Since you obviously equate being a homosexual as being the same thing as a child molester (who truly are predators), it is clear the ignorance gap I survey is beyond what any mortal man could attempt to leap.

My thanks again to the roman catholic church for perpetuating and repeating the age old lie that all homosexuals are child molesters, or even that being gay makes you more likely to be a child molester (which is also a lie). The RCC declared their child molestation problems were caused by gays sneaking into the priesthood. It seems the vast ignorant masses have gleefully embraced this huge lie and made it their own.

Let the gay bashing continue, unabated by a breath of reality. I apologize if this post has offended the gay bashers who are enjoying the thread, but it is genuinely hard to let such hate-mongering ignorance pass by unchallenged.
 
So was the guy who established the Scout's a homosexual predator, or merely a homosexual?


[SATIRE]The solution is obvious: Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, and Other Scouts. Continuing a fine tradition of "seperate but equal" US institutions, the Other Scouts could function and provide a similar experience to the other Scouts, albeit with more of an emphasis on fashion, culture and grooming.[SATIRE/]
 
I was a scout when I was young. I went to the swearing in of an Eagle scout in my community two weeks ago. It is clear to me that a community gets out of Scouting exactly what it puts into it.
 
I always appreciate your posts lawdog. Especially your stories from your past.

I heard today that the government will no longer use funds to sponser the boy scouts, but that they would allow them access to certain facilities that are available for most of the public. Sounds fine to me,

So they are already a non-for-profit group, good. (I bet you can tell I was never in the scouts) I don't understand what the problem is. They get no funding from tax dollars and they are a private club. They can surely make up their own rules for membership. No gays, no atheists. That I don't have any problems with even if I don't agree that it is a good idea.

"The American Civil Liberties Union sued the City of Chicago over both the religious and sexual orientation issues in the Scouting units that the city entities sponsored. The city ended its affiliation with the BSA."

"SAN BERNARDINO - In the first-known lawsuit of its kind, the American Civil Liberties Union is contending that a local council of the Boy Scouts violated the federal False Claims Act by taking federal grant money that should not have gone to an organization that excludes gays and atheists. To get the $15,000 grant from San Bernardino County, the Old Baldy Council of the Boy Scouts of America signed a contract stating that the organization complied with state and federal anti-discrimination laws. But by doing so, the Scouts violated the False Claims Act because of the group's exclusionary practices, the ACLU contended in a U.S. District Court for the Central District lawsuit filed in Riverside.
"The Boy Scouts can't have it both ways," ACLU attorney Martha Matthews said. "They must either stop discriminating in employment and membership or stop receiving taxpayer money."


By Laura Parker
and Guillermo X. Garcia
USA TODAY


September was not kind to the Boy Scouts of South Florida.

The Scouts lost nearly $530,000 in public money and charitable aid as one local government after another voted to end relations with the group because it excludes gay people.


Scouts can't 'have it both ways'

The present controversy was set off June 28, after the Supreme Court ruled 5-4 that the Boy Scouts of America is a private organization and therefore free to exclude gay men from serving as troop leaders. (Boy Scouts of America also bans gay members.)

The decision overturned a New Jersey Supreme Court ruling that applied the state's anti-discrimination law and required a New Jersey Scout troop to readmit a longtime member and assistant Scout leader, James Dale, who had been thrown out of the Scouts after he told associates he is gay.

The court focused narrowly on the issue of a private group's right under the First Amendment to set its own membership rules.

But outside the courtroom, the scouting groups' stance that they can exclude gays because they are private organizations has undermined their ability to receive public money, sponsorships or other support from taxpayer-supported schools and governments that bar discrimination based on sexual orientation.

I think the scouts are a wonderful organization. I've supported many fund raising activities for the scouts. I buy girl scout cookies from every student that is selling them. I give most of the cookies to my daughter and her kids (really).

But gay people pay taxes as do atheists. I guess it's liken to a private road and a public road. I have to pay for the public roads but have little say as to how much, or even, who else is allowed to use them. I also of course have to pay for my own road, (soon) but I get to say when and how it is fixed and who else gets to use it. But I don't expect a check from the public funds, which is what makes making my own rules all the sweeter. I can't have it both ways, nor do I wish to.
 
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bountyh,

The problem is the same one to which we would object if men were made scoutmasters of girl scout troops.
I do not know if the number of kids which would be preyed upon would be more for a homosexual in a boys troop or if a man were scoutmaster of a girls troops. I do know it is a sitution that is fraught with danger, and I would not permit my child to be under that set of circumstances.

I also would not permit my child to be a member of a similar group where homosexuals/lesbians would be part of it. Again, it is a situation in which there will be problems that would not happen without the gays.

Jerry
 
To get the $15,000 grant from San Bernardino County, the Old Baldy Council of the Boy Scouts of America signed a contract stating that the organization complied with state and federal anti-discrimination laws. But by doing so, the Scouts violated the False Claims Act because of the group's exclusionary practices, the ACLU contended in a U.S. District Court for the Central District lawsuit filed in Riverside.
"The Boy Scouts can't have it both ways," ACLU attorney Martha Matthews said. "They must either stop discriminating in employment and membership or stop receiving taxpayer money."
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Is there a federal law that makes it illegal to exclude employment or membership due to sexual orientation?
 
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