The Democrats are all for bringing the troops home

Redworm, Lets you and I just agree to disagree on this issue, I'm tired of trying to explain it, the only thing I will say is this, I voted for Bush for President as I thought he was the Best Man for the Job considering the two men that ran against him, one dumber than a pet rock, and the other a Traitor to his country, Bush has made some mistakes and will no doubt make some more, but the truth is He is trying to do the best he can for the country and as stated I voted for him and unless you or anyone else can show grounds for impeachment I will stand behind Him for the rest of his tour, then people can put who ever they want n the office and then we all will go at him, or her with just as much VENOM as Bush has received, mark my words.

I'm done now!
 
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How did we go from me saying that I don't think stopping immigration for ten years will do any good to impeaching Bush? :confused:
 
Redworm, This is the very last reply to you as you are fishing for an argument and I'm not going to get into it, the reason for the ten year proposed halt to the immigration program was an arbitrary time frame, remember these are suggestions not points of law before the Supreme Court.

As for the territories of the United States, not one of them to the best of my knowledge resides with in the Borders of the US. So the issue is moot as far as I'm concerned, I'm Talking about the United States only. Not it’s tributaries

If you are willing to set a lax border and Immigration under the current state of conditions of the possible threat of a terrorist attack fine but don't ask for help if it should occur, people have got to take some reasonable restraint of the people coming into this country, and until that has been done and the borders are absolutely secure, it would be a fool hardy venture to start making it easier right away to inter this country, and just incase you haven't noticed there are already several languages within the us Spoken every day, so explain to me why the push for a bilingual condition why not poly lingual, then we will all be as the people at the tower of Babylon, babbling like a bunch of idiots, and no one can understand each other.

How do you propose to secure a clean Criminal Record with so much ID theft going on? Get real!
 
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I'm not fishing for an argument, Im trying to follow what you're saying. I don't know where you got off on your rant about impeaching Bush since nothing in my posts suggested anything of the sort.

As for the territories of the United States, not one of them to the best of my knowledge reside with in the Borders of the US. So the issue is moot as far as I'm concerned, I'm Talking about the UNITED STATES ONLY.
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Territories of the United States are soveriegn US soil as much as the pieces of lands upon which you and I reside.

If you are willing to set a lax border and Imigration under the current state of conditions of the possible threat of a terrorist attack fine but don't ask for help if it should occur, people have got to take some reasonable restraint of the people comming into this country, and until that has been done and the borders are absolutely secure, it would be a fool hardy venture to start making it easier right away to inter this country, and just incase you haven't noticed there are already several languages within the us Spoken every day, so explain to me why the push for a BILINGUAL condition why not POLY LINGUAL, then we will all be as the people at the tower of BABBELON, babbling like a bunch of idiots, and no one can understand each other.
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I'm all for posting our military at the borders - both borders, mind you, considering that more of the 9/11 hijackers came through Canada than Mexico - to prevent terrorists from coming through but that shouldn't stop hard working men and women from coming here to make a living while at the same time adding to our economy by participating in it.

Yes, several languages are spoken here though I do support making American English the official language. My only concern is those territories that I mentioned before. That being said the ability to speak a second language is simply a wonderful advantage one can have. We live in a global economy and we will never reverse that. Those who can communicate with people in other countries have a distinct advantage over those that can't. I'm not saying it should be mandatory but I would like it strongly recommended and I'm glad that at least the lackluster Department of Education has one thing right in requiring all high school grads to spend at least a year in a foreign language. Unfortunately their methods of teaching it are absurd since the DOE refuses to accept dynamic immersion as the best way to learn a second language.

Personally I don't believe in the Tower of Babel story but the way to prevent such a situation is for people to understand each other, not for people to hunker down and refuse to communicate.

How do you propose to secure a clean Criminal Record with so much ID THEFT GOING ON, GET REAL.
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Well if that's the reasoning then firearm ownership is equally at risk...:confused: We ought to fix the problem at hand. Attempting to stifle the symptoms won't be good for any of us.
 
badbob, I started out as a Navy Machinist Maintaining the Steam Plants, valves, Pumps and such, started working in a small shop after I got out and saw real soon that, that was not what I wanted to do, Went to work in a Steel Mill Maintenance Shop, no good either, then I got into Plastic Injection molds, Blow Molds, ETC. then came an opportunity to get into a job as A custom Machine Builder that was a really good job, from there I went to a production shop as a Tool maker for Jigs, and Fixtures, for the Punch Presses, CNC. The old Tape Reader Machines, did some Programming on a Hurco KMB-2 milling Machine, didn't mind the Programming part but when the Boss wanted me to run production on it I left and went back to Jigs, Fixtures, And Custom Machines in a R&D environment, Work petered out and got caught in a layoff and Finally got a Job in another Steel mill actually a Wire Rope Factory, which we were maintaining machinery that was over 90 years old and still out producing new equipment, the company I worked for last was Wire Rope Corp. of America, the owner sold off some of the unused equip. To China, and then set out to buy up his competition, and ended up going into Bankruptcy, and had to sell the company off to settle his debts, and that was the end of the Job and my ability to work which came at about the same time, so I was not affected as a lot of the guys were, due to Emphysema I was awarded Disability, a good portion of the old guys went to work at the Lake City Ammo plant which is just 8 min. north of me here, I loved the trade and would not have ever changed to another line of work, I also did some custom Gunsmith work under a gun smith and really enjoyed that, I also did some gunsmith in the same situation while on shore duty in Vallejo Calif. at the Naval Ship yard there, for a gunsmith in Napa Calif. there were two of us building custom guns using the Mouser 98, 95, and 93 actions, I built a 22-250 for myself and just finished the Rifle a week before Remington announced they were going to start making the Rifle and producing the Ammo, so I junked my Pacific C Frame loading press casting and decided to just buy the ammo, because I couldn't keep the components on the Ship anyway.
The 22-250 I built was a Mouser 95 Portuguese, action, I used a Douglas Bench rest Barrel Blank, and machined a straight taper contour from1.08 at the Breach to a .625 muzzle, I put that into a Bishop Full beaver tailed fore end, Monte Carlo cheekiest, Blue Finish, an all metal, the sock was finished with linspeed oil, and set a weaver K6 Scope on her, the first 5 shots out of the barrel were very impressive to me all under 1" at 100 Yds. The gunsmith done a thing that scared the dickens out of me, he said he could improve the accuracy by lapping the BBL, reluctantly I agreed, and was glad I did because the rifle was shooting better than I ever thought it would, I was holding 3/4 inch groups at 200 yds. And at 100 if I did everything I was supposed to it would put 5 in a hole smaller than a dime. My ex wife forced the sale of that rifle and after I got rid of it within a year I got rid of her should have kept the rifle and got rid of her instead.

Anyway that was a lot more info than you asked for but don't get to talk shop much anymore.
 
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Redworm, Iwill try one more time to clear this up, but not now Going to bed been up since 4 this morning, tired and going blind.
 
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"All the Democrats are calling for an imediate withdrawl from the Middle east,"

My eyes glazed over after that... Not only are they not *all* calling for that, I can't find a single instance where any of them have called for that.
 
"We demand repayment of all debts owed this country regardless of the reason for the debt PAID IN FULL, and the money recieved to us would be then used to pay off, or down the National Debt we owe with the understanding that any unpaid ballance would be first priority"

OK, so we demand that other countries pay us back. So that pisses the world off, and IT demands that WE repay the money we owe to other countries.

It works both ways. If China started selling....no, not even........just STOPPED BUYING...US debt for a WEEK, our economy would, quite simply, tank.
 
It works both ways. If China started selling....no, not even........just STOPPED BUYING...US debt for a WEEK, our economy would, quite simply, tank.
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Heard a blurb on the radio the other morning about a family that attempted to go a whole year without using a single product made in China. They discovered that so many things they use are pretty much only made in China in mass quantities that it would be practically impossible for any American family to do the same on any kind of a realistic budget.

I'd put up 100 bucks to anyone here that can prove they don't use a single Chinese-made product (which would be impossible considering there isn't a personal computer in the world without a few Chinese made chips and transistors inside :D...I'd like my Benjamin now plz).
 
Not to bring Sam Walton's automaton into this but one could start by not buying ANYTHING from walmart...maybe ammo, but even I bet the winchester boxes are printed over there...
 
You Win

You Win

Redworm, I thought a lot about your question, and came to the conclusion that, no mater what I said you would find fault, and not be satisfied with any response I could offer, so I will simply close this by saying; "you are the more Educate person in this situation and have gone, I think out of your way to illustrate that, so I concede you a Victory, Plus the fact if you had just offered an opposing point of view that would have been ok as that was the intent, to simply offer a suggestion and see what came back in the way of a counter suggestion but you have assumed the typical Democratic approach by attacking the issue as totally off the wall but I really didn't understand any opposing plan. I threw something out just as a What if and I was attacker as if I had stolen the Family jewels of asked to sleep with someone’s wife, it is a shame that we can not offer a suggestion just for the sake of a what if? And as far as I am concerned, under the circumstances, the matter is now closed.

Congratulation!
 
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Oh don't play the victim, it doesn't suit you or anyone else here. I haven't gone out of my way to do nothing save for posing questions in regards to your ideas. I still don't see what good blocking immigration for ten years will do. I still don't see how anything I said can be related to impeaching Bush.
 
"Oh don't play the victim, it doesn't suit you or anyone else here. I haven't gone out of my way to do nothing save for posing questions in regards to your ideas. I still don't see what good blocking immigration for ten years will do. I still don't see how anything I said can be related to impeaching Bush."

Ok redworm, let me have a go. What good will it do to halt immigration for a period? What would happen is we could have a chance to figure out who was here, before we let more people in who we knew were going to overstay their visas. It would give us a chance to use our resources to track down the people who shouldn't be here. It would give us a chance to assimilate those here into our society, however pathetic that society may be. It will fight the idiotic foreign enclaves that refuse to adapt, refuse to speak our language and refuse to obey our laws. It would save us a lot of money on paying for the healthcare, welfare and imprisonment of the high percentage of immigrants, legal and illegal, who take advantage of us. I'm all for immigration, but not at the cost of our sovereignty and our innate Americanness.

But personally, I don't want the tired, huddled masses. I want the educated, the beautiful, the hard working and the rich. I want the people who can bring something to our society, not those who "just want a better life." For all that this country offers, it should get something in return. That might sound cruel or obnoxious, but so what? We can't improve the lives of everyone on earth. So we might as well focus on ourselves. And 15 million people a year is over the line, no matter what way you look at it.

What were your other questions?
 
Esquire if you are going to mispell words at least do it right.

Spelling isn’t always important if you can follow these guidelines.

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Ok redworm, let me have a go. What good will it do to halt immigration for a period? What would happen is we could have a chance to figure out who was here, before we let more people in who we knew were going to overstay their visas. It would give us a chance to use our resources to track down the people who shouldn't be here. It would give us a chance to assimilate those here into our society, however pathetic that society may be. It will fight the idiotic foreign enclaves that refuse to adapt, refuse to speak our language and refuse to obey our laws. It would save us a lot of money on paying for the healthcare, welfare and imprisonment of the high percentage of immigrants, legal and illegal, who take advantage of us. I'm all for immigration, but not at the cost of our sovereignty and our innate Americanness.

But personally, I don't want the tired, huddled masses. I want the educated, the beautiful, the hard working and the rich. I want the people who can bring something to our society, not those who "just want a better life." For all that this country offers, it should get something in return. That might sound cruel or obnoxious, but so what? We can't improve the lives of everyone on earth. So we might as well focus on ourselves. And 15 million people a year is over the line, no matter what way you look at it.

What were your other questions?
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I just don't think it's worth closing the doors. Everything you mentioned could still be done without putting a ten year bar on immigration and I'm afraid it would not only deprive us of a powerful workfource but would really hurt our image in the international community. Now I know some of y'all may not give two hoots about that but the bottom line is that America is not an isolationist country anymore and can never be again. If we close our borders and a country like Germany decides to cut all economic ties with us as a result our economy would be severly wounded. If China were to decide the same our economy would likely collapse (granted theirs would too).

If a dude from Mexico wants to come here legally and work for me I'll put him to work. I don't care that he sends most of his money to his family in Mexico because I know that not only is he planning on bringing them here to live but while here he's still buying food, paying rent, watching tv, buying gas and contributing to our economy the same way you and I do. I don't even care if he can't speak english; obviously he wouldn't deserve to be a citizen until he does but if he can only speak spanish that's good for me an any other bilingual business owner that can communicate naturally in the guy's own language.

I'm all for the tired and huddled masses as long as they're willing to work. Just because someone's educated and rich does not mean they won't come here and leech off the system, commit crimes and generally be a nuisance to our country.
 
Redworm, I’m going out on a limb here and try to explain my thinking on closing the emigration process for ten years.

I think it would take that long to process the current list of people that are already in the system, so that maybe it will allow those who have been waiting a long time to get a determination as to their status.

During that ten-year period, the Organization could work on a greatly improved process to streamline the Immigration Dept. to a degree of proficiency, which it does not have at the present time.

I forget when they said the Immigration Dept. was last updated, with regard to their procedures. But from what I can glean it isn’t proficient at all.

My suggestions were only that. Things got out of control, and I was at a loss to adequately, define the answer to yours and others questions, then when I felt, real or not that I was being put down for a limited Education I automatically went into defense mode and all reason went out the window. My problem.

It just bothers me when people here in the US and Congress, no matter what party they belong to, constantly gripe and bellyache about the effort in Iraq, and keep saying they want to bring our troops back home, never mind the consequences of that action, and in my opinion, it is mostly a political ploy, to gain votes, the Democratic Party especially have done nothing but try to block, discredit, or trash anything the President has tried to do, for no other reason than like spoiled brats they want their Government Control back, they honestly feel that it is theirs to keep for ever.

As a Viet Nam Veteran I don’t want to see another repeat of the, things that took place then which is pretty much what is now happening.

To summarize the Immigration issue, it may not be a good idea to close the process for a ten-year period of time but I honestly think it would take that long simply to process the people that are already in the system that are trying to gain legal emigration status, and by closing it would allow the system a chance to breath and step back and assess the situation, then during the closed period, the congress could hopefully have set a reasonable policy for the immigration problem.

Probably still have not satisfied your question but I think I have given it my best shot, sorry if it fell short.
 
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