The decline of hunters and animal over-population.

J

Jamie Young

New member
Here in Pennsylvania the black bear population went from 4000 to 14,000 in 20yrs. The deer population is in the millions, and 50yds ago, there was a fraction of the deer there are now. We have more car accidents from deer than we did 20yrs ago.

The black bear population now is getting to the point where bear to human contact is becoming more and more common. But we haven't seen a death from a bear attack in (I think) about 80yrs. I'm one of the few amongst My group of hunting buddies that actually scales the hills during bear season (haven't gotten one yet:( ) but I hardly know anyone that hunts bear.


At the rate we are baggin bear each year, there will be a population growth indefinitly.
If hunters aren't controlling populations of bear in PA.....then what? I'm kind of hoping they'd turn the 3 day bear season into a 5-7day season.
 
Lot of encroachment of urban areas into historical rural. Great buffer zones where no hunting allowed, but still great for any critter than can coexist with humans.

Bear problem easily solved by safe sex classes - maybe some huggers, a banana & ..... show 'em how it's done ... ;)
 
Sex education for bear???? Didn't they prove that had adverse affects on teenagers??;)

The use of birth control for deer is rediculous but I think it may be a little bit more practical for bear.

We've had a few stray within about 15miles of Phildelphia in the last 5yrs. I think half the people though it was a big raccoon.
 
The decline in the total number of hunters, nationwide, has created many game-management problems. And, of course, PETA and the bliss-ninny crowd don't help matters any.

As far as Pennsylvania and deer, an article in Field & Stream in the early 1960s stated that one year the deer kill by hunters was some 40,000. The deer kill from car wrecks was just over 40,000.

In the real world, population numbers among wildlife species can only be decreased by predation, disease/starvation or loss of habitat. "Birth control" is an absolute joke. Without predation, deer and bear numbers will increase to some limiting point, such as carrying capacity of the land for food supply. Hunters are the only serious source of predators.

Art
 
They actually removed 14 bear off My friends mountain a few years ago an relocated them in the state. A few years ago we had a bear from nothern NJ (who was a 3 time offender in 2yrs) come into Bucks County which is about 10miles from the Philadelphia border. They kept trapping the bugger and moving him upstate. They finally put him down a year ago. Their getting a little too use to humans.
 
IMNSHO, the reason we see little bear hunting in PA is the time the season is open. It's generally right before Thanksgiving. Deer season opens the Monday afterwards. Most hunters are not going to take off a few days, go hunt bear, go home for Thanksgiving then take time off and go deer hunting. Especially with Christmas a few weeks away. The Game Commission should just run bear season concurrently with rifle deer season.

And don't even get me started on the deer over population and these new stupid regulations! Why make us buy a separate permit for doe and do it by county? Why not just allow the regular hunting tag to be good for either a doe or a buck with whatever cockamammie antler restrictions they have wherever you happen to be hunting?

Nebraska has a great system, IMO. You get a deer license. The state decides, by area how many buck and doe tags to give out. So when you send for your license they send back either a "buck only" tag, a "doe only" tag or an "either" tag. Much simpler and allows for better control of the population.
 
The Game Commission should just run bear season concurrently with rifle deer season.
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I'd like to see a lot more of this in my state as well. For some reason, state wildlife departments seem to be averse to concurrent hunting seasons. This has been the case in all of the states I've hunted in-NY,VA and MD. I really don't have the time to get a full season in for turkey,deer and bear. I'm lucky to get in a few days for each deer season and 1-3 days for turkey. Also, it never fails that I see other big game out of season. I'm not kidding when I say that I saw over 30 turkeys during last deer season, and only 3 during turkey season.
 
The Game Commission should just run bear season concurrently with rifle deer season.
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I know a ton of bow hunters that see bear every Sept. I'm probable one of the few that takes off every year to go bear hunting. In the last 7yrs I don't think I've seen more than about 12 other guys out hunting.

I have to look into finding out who's running the Game commission in PA and send them a letter about changing the deer and bear season rules. I'm getting sick of the license prices going up but the regulations not changing. I get sick of going out with a regular license and passing up doe every year.
 
Well here is the problem with hunting Black Bears.

I don't want to eat it, take it's fur or mount its head.

I have a lot of enthusiasm for deer and antelope, good meat, skins and horns.

But Bear? I just can't eat the thing. :barf:

And I don't need a rug.
 
Here in Texas some counties have a huge deer overpopulation. There is one neighborhood near Austin on Lake Travis where you have to drive 5 mph weaving back and forth in the evenings as you drive through herds of deer. Some of the bleeding heart rich folks won't even allow bow hunting there, even though some of the properties are a couple of acres each. A couple of years ago they hired trappers ( nets ) to trap the deer and take them to Mexico. The deer stand in yards eating everything in sight. "Deer resistant" plants aren't. Some years the deer are practically starving due to overpopulation and lack of food. Our deer tags are statewide. I have 5 deer tags that say either antlerless or buck. ( two other tags for mulees) Some counties are 5 deer counties. You the hunter have to know what county you are hunting in that day and what the limits are. Some people say our whitetails are big dogs... Bears, none that I know of in Central Texas.
 
I think black bear may get to the point where they'll just have to go in and take them out off season. I think Canadian geese are the biggest problem. They've ruined so many parks and lakes in PA. Any animal that poops that much should be exterminated.
 
Art said:
"In the real world, population numbers among wildlife species can only be decreased by predation, disease/starvation or loss of habitat. "Birth control" is an absolute joke. Without predation, deer and bear numbers will increase to some limiting point, such as carrying capacity of the land for food supply. Hunters are the only serious source of predators".

To expand, when deer reach the carrying capacity of the land (and they always will in without predation) and a "bad year" occurs, the result is disaster and the die-off can take years to overcome. If there is only 80% of the food necessary for survival of the whole herd, that doesn't mean 80% of the deer survive. What happens is that 100% of the deer eat all of the food and then 100% of the deer have nothing to eat until the famine is ended. Eighty percent of the herd may be lost, including the whole fawn crop and the yearlings from the last crop.
Predation, on the other hand, controls population and is self correcting. Fewer deer means fewer wild predators, fewer tags issued, fewer hunters because of less opportunity, and fewer sightings and kills by those who do hunt.
The choice is obvious to all but the PITA-ites. Controled predation actually prevents the disaster of overpopulation unless God allows a really big famine. Then we call it survival of the fittest and the gene pool gets a little fine tuning. Personally, I don't believe the deer will turn into flying lizards and migrate to the tropics, but the stupidest and least fit will not be around to breed.
 
I can see a few good things coming out of this trend.

-More bear/human encounters mean more people will start packing, which is good.

-More baby maulings will undercut the Disney/PITA view of wildlife.

-More wildlife in urban areas will make the rest of the country more like Alaska, which to my mind is good. Up here F&G just tells people with problem black bear to get a hunting license and kill them.
 
from my local paper:

In response to the proposed use of sharpshooters to control deer populations, I am amazed that our only reaction to our failure to co-exist with wildlife is to kill. That reaction has been the human remedy for centuries.


How unfortunate that it is too inconvenient to wear appropriate clothing or bug spray as protection against Lyme disease; or to observe the speed limit and drive cautiously to reduce deer and car collisions; or to challenge the Maryland-National Capital Park and Planning Commission with finding more effective no-kill alternatives.


Those who only see these beautiful and graceful animals as pests could enrich their lives by allowing themselves to marvel at nature's wonders.


Cindy Petrick, Wheaton
 
Deer and bear

I went to a little range the other evening with my granddaughter and we shot my 45 (which she loves) she is 12, but anyhow I went to try a new rifle I had traded for a Rossi 44 WCF. It was late and we were making lots of noise , but the deer were almost on the edge of the range. There are lots of deer almost hit one going out . They don't seem to be afraid of gunfire.
There wasn't supose to be any bear around here, but they have caught some very close to Amarillo and I have heard cowboys say that in the back country they have seen them and big cats.
I guess that given enough time they will repopulate there historical range.
 
I love the "drive more cautiously" argument - that sure didn't stop me from hitting a deer on River Road in Louisville KY - a place not exactly known for it's deer sightings. Sometimes the "Darwin Candidates" don't realize that

1. Cars have the right of way
2. Single lane highways don't leave a lot of room to swerve
3. If the deer jumps in front of your car, sometimes it's just the deer's time to go.

Kevin
 
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