The day to day realities of CCW

M

maxinquaye

New member
Hello,

I live in California, which, with it's draconian CCW laws, means that if I wanted to exercise my RTBA, I would have to be EXTREMELY careful.

I am interested in any stories or perspectives on how difficult / inconvienencing it is to carry on a daily basis. Let's imagine a hypothetical individual was planning on carrying a Kel-Tec P-32 with the belt clip every day...in reality how difficult is it to become accustomed to the carry? Any general or specific thoughts on CCW by those who may do so without prosecution would be appreciated.

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Try this - next time you get junk mail, send their own crap back to them in the envelope marked "Postage Paid by Addressee" ;-)
 
My problems with CCW concerned making new clothing choices and then dealing with affectionate family and friends who like to hug. Proper clothing choices will conceal your weapon just fine, but few clothing choices will actually keep someone who is hugging you from figuring out you have something rather large and very hard on your hip (no sex slams please!). I carry right side and so when getting hugged, I lean in with my left shoulder for a polite, but casual hug. It sounds a little silly in a way, but it is a reality. Let's face it, chances are you don't want people to know you are carrying, even friends, and they will likely be shocked if they discover your weapon during a friendly salutation.
 
Good Morning Maxinquaye,
Fortunately in my case carrying my handgun hasn't been too difficult. The only difficulties I ran into when I first started carrying concealed after receiving my CCW was the weather. I live in Northern Virginia and the summers here, like other places, get pretty hot and humid. My G23 is with me almost everyday. It's not exactly a tiny handgun to try to conceal, especially on a hot July day. Recently purchased a number of 2XL polo shirts and t-shirts. This helps alot to conceal my G23 on my 6'/195lbs body.

To reiterate Gopher .45's post, "proper clothing choices" go a long way. It took me a while to figure out which combination of clothing and holsters best concealed my different handguns.

The added weight may be another consideration, but you get used to that quickly. Regards.
 
Ahh the huggies, that does pose a challenge sometimes don't it? How about public bathroom stalls when you are IWB - someone is in the next stall and the divider is about a foot and a half off the floor? Running, falling, and anything gymnastic can pose a challenge (no hanging upside down on the monkey bars with the kids!)Last but not least is to have that gun accounted for at all times, after changing clothes at the gym the gun does not go into the locker with clothes - it stays with you in a locker bag that goes everywhere you do. You are with some friends and everybody decides that a skinny dip is in order, well?
 
I carry an AMT Backup .45 in a homemade thunderwear style holster.
It cannot be detected even when wearing short only. My leo buddies can attest to this when I bet them they could'nt tell I was carrying; we were playing water volleyball at the time; I took their money!
The instructions are on the KelTec owners page: http://www.ktog.org/bdware.htm
 
Practice makes Perfect...

So practice where you don't have to worry about being 'made'. At home, at work (sometimes). Make it a daily ritual that when you come home, you strap on the roscoe.
You will find that very soon, you will feel very accustom to having it on you. You will eventually, stop 'checking' either directly by your hand, or indirectly by body motion, arms and elbows, etc.

When you feel that you've mastered the comfortablility of it, then start to ask friends (only the most trust worthy) to see if they notice anything odd about your body.

If they consistantly cannot determine your CCW, then you should be pretty safe to go out into the wilde with it. Start out by carrying at night (less likely to see a 'print'), carrying more and more every day.

You'll find that very soon it becomes a way of life, that you'll be completely concealed all the time, you're body language will not give you away, and you'll feel naked without it!!! :)



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~USP

"[Even if there would be] few tears shed if and when the Second Amendment is held to guarantee nothing more than the state National Guard, this would simply show that the Founders were right when they feared that some future generation might wish to abandon liberties that they considered essential, and so sought to protect those liberties in a Bill of Rights. We may tolerate the abridgement of property rights and the elimination of a right to bear arms; but we should not pretend that these are not reductions of rights." -- Justice Scalia 1998
 
Any handgun belt-clipped or carried in and IWB or OWB/BS/Paddle WILL in fact cause you some difficulties in all liklihood. For example, if your "cover" of the gun is a jacket, then what about when you go to a restaurant for lunch mid-day. You look silly, summer or winter, if you don't take your coat off while eating. So you have to disarm (leave it in your vehicle or office), OR come up with some creative cover (such as belly band, tuckable, or CIPS-type holster, or perhaps rely on a sweatshirt or untucked shirt, which can pull up and reveal you). This is the specific problem I have when carrying my G30 in a paddle. I solve it by either switching to the P32 at lunch (see below), OR putting the G30 in a CIPS holster (conceal in plain sight), specifically the Bayer Arms phone facade holster - works like a charm. Some people stare at it and "know" what it really is, but so what - it's still concealed.

Now, OTOH, almost ALL if not all problems are eliminated if you put that P32 in a front pocket holster and leave it there all day. Changing circumstances require no change of carry - just looks like a checkbook in your pocket. Do a search in handguns or gear & accessories for the words holster and P32 in the subject line, and you'll find 2-3 threads on this subject in the last 3 months.

[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited July 07, 2000).]
 
Review your wardrobe. You may or may not require changes, from subtle to not so subtle, depending on how you prefer to dress. Wear your pistol around the house. Sit with it for extended periods. Lie on the couch. Go to the bathroom with it. Sit in you car- I advise in the garage, if you have one. You'll quickly realize that it will take some getting used to. That is the ticket, by the way. You have to "get used to it" so that your actions do not give yourself away- and that's after you iron out any concealment problems you may have.

Good luck!
 
Strap the Roscoe on and then go somewhere cops hang out(a resturant,or a donut/coffee shop). Monitor your personal stress meter while surrounded by these guys. If you can't relax and move about the room then you need more time.
 
I guess that I more old fashion than I realized (it's scarry when you start sounding & acting like your parents), but I have developed the belief that it is sloppy/messy to wear an untucked in shirt. As a result, having a tucked in shirt and no jacket (due to the extreme heat down in southern Florida), limited what I could carry concealed -- a Kahr MK9 was about as big as I could go. I had to slowly change my way of thinking about myself and be comfortable with an untucked in shirt. By dressing that way, I am able to effectively conceal even larger firearms (such as the S&W3913, which I try to carry as often as I can -- when I can't, it's back to the MK9).

Another important item is that once you make the decision to carry, you should carry as often as you can and not just once in a while. I talk to people who say they only carry when they're expecting trouble. Well, meaning no disrespect to anyone else who might think that way but IMHO, that is one of the dumbest statements anyone can make. First off, if you expect trouble, why not just change your plans around and avoid the problem area all together? Even if one survives a gun fight, winning the legal battle when might follow could be much harder.

I lived with my sister-in-law for several months due to our house being delayed in being built. She's not exactly an "anti" in the true sense of the word but she isn't too fond of firearms either. The whole time that we were there, I had a concealed firearm on me from the moment I left my room in the morning until I turned in for the night and nobody knew that I was armed except for my wife who saw me get dressed in the morning & undressed at night.

A final consideration for those that carry everyday is to never lose sight of the fact that you arm indeed armed. With the proper weapon and the proper dress attire, you will gradually forget that you are carrying a gun. You'll know but you won't (if that makes any sense) and as a result, you have to constantly keep this in the back of your mind. For example, you can't just casually walk into a post office (or other government building) because you'll be commiting a felony if you have a gun on you.

Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD
fud-nra.gif
 
Having read all of this, and especially the parts concerning dress, I tried an experiment. In the summer months I always wear a leather cycle vest because I'm usually on a cycle. I tried moving my IWB holster around to the front (muzzle pointed toward right hip bone). I already have a bit of a beer belly on an otherwise skinny frame, and the gun under the vest makes the belly a bit more pronounced, but does not print. What are the odds of being made for having "too much" of a belly?

Dick
Want to send Bush a message? Sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/monk/petition.html and forward the link to every gun owner you know.
 
I'm not a large man at all, and I can carry a full size gun anywhere with nary a look. Maybe a lot of folks are in Condition White, but it really seems like a piece of cake here. I use an M/D Enterprises YCS IWB holster without a thumb strap. Like someone else said, I try to carry my big gun (a 1911) all the time, but when I can't, I carry a P32 in my front pocket. Back to the IWB. I tuck in a "tee" shirt and then wear an untucked and unbuttoned shirt over it. Find a few white or tan shirts that have a light but tightly woven (not knit) cotton shirts for the "overshirt." That way, it will relfect the hot sun, and will stay cool, but since it's tightly woven, it won't let the gun print as easily (the material doesn't "fall" around objects as much). I see where FUD is coming from, but it seems the more "regular looking" I dress, the more I look like the crowd. The more you carry, the more used to it you'll be. I feel awkward when I don't have a gun on me now! As many of you know, I work in very sensitive environments at times, and I have to lock up my gun when I go to one of those places. Even though I'm in a top security environment, I'm so used to having my gun on me that I feel really awkward!
 
I have a P32 with belt clip but it's generally not my primary carry gun.

I found, after bouncing around between carry guns and holsters, that it's best to stick with the "one gun, one place, all the time" principle. Now in climates which hit all four seasons, this can be tough. I came up with a S&W AirLite Ti M342 in a Kramer pocket holster carried in the front pocket of my casual khakis.

Adjustments? Well, pleated pants are a must for pocket carry. Helps break up the outline of the gun, which the Kramer holster's Kydex facing does beautifully anyway.

Once you find your "one gun, one place, all the time" setup, you do not find any inconvenience at all. It's like shaving in the morning -- you throw your gun in your pocket as an automatic part of your routine.

The P32 gets used for activities which require a small light gun (e.g., jogging) and for clothes that the M342 will not fit (e.g., my tuxedo with the thin @#%$! pockets).

Justin

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Justin T. Huang, Esq.
late of Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
 
Simple cure for the huggies. When someone starts to hug you, move first and grab them around the waist. This forces them to hug you around the arms and shoulders. They'll never know you're carrying. ;)

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Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
 
Carry my P-32 clipped on my pants directly behind the belt buckle (generally 3" x 2" which is not overly large) and have never been made, even during a hug. The belt buckle gives all the cover needed. I also "fluff" the shirt just enough to hang over the buckle without looking sloppy. I wear western shirts tucked in my jeans, don't like T shirts.
 
Consider making a holster out of an old billfold (or sm-th that looks similar) and caryring in the pocket. That way you can even "flash" the gun if need be without anyone getting alarmed...but best just keep it covered. P32 is my around-the-house gun and I tend to forget that I have it on me...it is that light. BTW, mine is back from repair, I got new photos of it and of holsters and the update to the "mousegun" page is in the works.
 
Oleg, if I recall correctly, the billfold holster thing is now a no-no - unless you wanna spend the $200 and register it as a destructive device. IIRC, Small Arms Review did a piece on 'em a year or so ago. I bleep thee not on this one...

I live in Misery (hey, you can spell it differently if YOU want to, but...), where CCW is a no-no... Interesting thing is that I'm the token gun nut regular in a midtown pub, frequented by folks ranging from house painters, computer geeks, plumbers, through lawyers, cops and alphabet boys. We got into a conversation a little while back, about CCW, and several of the folks announced that they just assumed I was always armed, legal or not... Of course, the folks making the assumption weren't "gun" folks...

I routinely carry an nice purple Uncle Mike's Sidekick fanny pack, just to keep the local boys nervous... No gun - just a tape recorder, sunglasses, cell phone, etc. Funny thing is, I've never had a second look at it from law enforcement or security folks, but I've had a couple of situations where I'm sure that a citizen-type "made" the bag for a holster...
 
>>Oleg, if I recall correctly, the billfold holster thing is now a no-no - unless you wanna spend the $200 and register it as a destructive device. IIRC, Small Arms Review did a piece on 'em a year or so ago. I bleep thee not on this one... <<

Well, the guy is carrying illegally anyway so in for a penny, in for a pound.
 
If carry'n in Cali - hmmm...
Think I'ld just carry right across the boarder and not look back!

Untucked sloppy? Guffaw!
Anyone wants me to tuck in my shirt and wear pants other than blue jeans will need to be paying me a FAT and HAPPY salary.
 
"Well, the guy is carrying illegally anyway so in for a penny, in for a pound."

<Very official legal voice>
Ahem, being that this situation is completely hypothetical, I appreciate all of your responses. Remember, TFL and <username> Maxinquaye to not condone, advocate, admit to, smell like or have ever seen anything to do with people actually illegally carrying a concealed firearm, which would result in severe legal penalties and an indian burn from the sheriff.
 
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