The Cold War: who won?

D

Destructo6

New member
The Berlin Wall fell, the USSR cut off its satellite contries, and the USSR became Russia. The free world won that battle.

Then again, with all the paramilitary police actions and the severe left leanings of all of our schools and media (ensuring ongoing left shifts), did we really win? It seems that while battling the forces of socialism/communism we were infected with the same. It seems that all of Europe is a few small steps and a charamatic leader away from full fledged communism. It also seems that the US is only a few steps behind Europe.

My thoughts aren't fully formed, but this idea has been bothering me for quite some time now. What do you think?
 
The communist movement in America was very strong in the '20s and when the Depression hit, it was ripe for FDR's socialistic based "Big Brother" alphabet soup programs which were welcomed by people in need. Of course, the Supreme Court didn't agree with them but after FDR cowered the Court, he had his way and we've been marching down that path for decades.
 
4V50 Gary,
My thoughts exactly, but the case can be made that Japan won the Cold War.

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ALARM! ALARM! CIVILIZATION IS IN PERIL! THE BARBARIANS HAVE TAKEN THE GATES!
 
I hate to say it but most americans believe in marxist theory without really understanding it.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE WORK THAT YOU DO IS WORTH YOUR WAGE (or a certain dollars per hour)?

If you answered YES then you are in essence a communist and you do not know it.

The work that you do is worthless in a free market capitalist economy. If you believe that you should be paid a fair wage; then you believe in wage theory; (otherwise known as labor theory written by Karl Marx).

You see that in a free capitalist market; your work has no real value. Only what someone else might be willing to pay for it at any given moment. At times, your work will be worthless - zero. At times even negative understanding the lazy shiftless and back stabbing nature of many workers (forgive my use of the term worker).

As for the rest of your politicosocio concerns; good people are good and bad people are bad. A good tree brings forth good fruit and a bad tree brings forth bad fruit no matter where in the world it is. If you paint the tree a different color; it does not change the tree. If you have good people; any system will work. If you have bad people; any system will fail. What more can I say.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Destructo6:
The Berlin Wall fell, the USSR cut off its satellite contries, and the USSR became Russia. The free world won that battle.

Then again, with all the paramilitary police actions and the severe left leanings of all of our schools and media (ensuring ongoing left shifts), did we really win? It seems that while battling the forces of socialism/communism we were infected with the same. It seems that all of Europe is a few small steps and a charamatic leader away from full fledged communism. It also seems that the US is only a few steps behind Europe.

My thoughts aren't fully formed, but this idea has been bothering me for quite some time now. What do you think?[/quote]



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And to add:

The reason why Russian or Chinese style communism never could win in the USA was that we already had much more social programs that were far better and far more advanced in a 'communist' sense that either the Russians, Chinese, or east europeans could afford to give to their people.

Believe it or not; the USA is more socialist and more communist and was more socialist and more communist that either Russia or China even in their best days. That is why the Russians and Chinese could never convince the american public that their style of life was easier.

A free society powered by ideals and of course the old greed and lust is capable of out producing any forced labor theory society where the workers (forgive my use of the term worker) have a guaranteed life.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Destructo6:
The Berlin Wall fell, the USSR cut off its satellite contries, and the USSR became Russia. The free world won that battle.

Then again, with all the paramilitary police actions and the severe left leanings of all of our schools and media (ensuring ongoing left shifts), did we really win? It seems that while battling the forces of socialism/communism we were infected with the same. It seems that all of Europe is a few small steps and a charamatic leader away from full fledged communism. It also seems that the US is only a few steps behind Europe.

My thoughts aren't fully formed, but this idea has been bothering me for quite some time now. What do you think?[/quote]



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Destructo6...

To answer your question regarding who won the "Cold War", the answer is...the international banking cartel.

Read "The Creature From Jekyll Island", by Griffin.
 
I'll respond to the topic this way. I think that we are doing to ourselves what we would never have allowed the USSR to do to us.
 
The question assumes it's over. A better question would be, "Who do you think is winning the cold war?". China or Russia?
 
You could kill the communist ideology in the US in ten years if you would abolish government run schools and colleges. Communism is what they teach. You can't expect them to bite the hand (government's) that feeds them can you? Communism laced with facist economic controls are what is taught in today's colleges. Even the private schools are corrupted via public funding. College is where members of the media, future college professors, lawyers, politicians, business people, school teachers and bureaucrats are trained. Americans are studying hard and learning their lessons well. If you are concerned with the dominant ideas of today, you had better take a look at where they come from and why they are taught. Naturally, people practice what they have learned in school. That's the whole purpose of going, isn't it?

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"I don't believe in individualism, Peter. I don't believe that any one man is any one thing which everybody else can't be. I believe that we are all equal and interchangeable."--Ellsworth Toohey
 
ellsworth, "Elly," if I may, have you by any chance read some of Alan Keyes' lectures on the philosophy behind the Declaration of Independence and its relationship to the Constitution?

BTW, The Fountainhead certainly reads better than Atlas Shrugged.
 
No, I haven't read much of Allan Keyes at all. However, if he says that the purpose of the Constitution is to put the principles of the Declaration into practice, then I am in full agreement with him.

I preferred "Atlass Shrugged" myself. It was a more difficult undertaking than "The Fountainhead."

BTW. Don't take my signature seriously. I'm just waiting for someone to challenge me on it. I do believe in Individualism.

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"I don't believe in individualism, Peter. I don't believe that any one man is any one thing which everybody else can't be. I believe that we are all equal and interchangeable."--Ellsworth Toohey
 
Ellie, you're preaching to the choir about individualism.

Trouble with Atlas Shrugged is that it's hard to separate the essays from the novel. Here and there, like Roarke's closing statement at the trial, or Ellsworth's harangue, in The Fountainhead, adds to the flavor of the story. It never forgets that it's a novel. That's why I prefer it to Atlas Shrugged. Having said that, I find myself constantly re-reading Atlas Shrugged for yet another pithy quote.

[This message has been edited by Munro Williams (edited April 26, 2000).]
 
The essays are inseperable from the novel. Without them, it would be just another novel about trains. The author said that all novelists are philosophers whether they know it or not. She knew she was a philosopher.

Her purpose in writing "The Fountainhead" was to show the effect that a person's ideas have on their character. Her purpose in writing "Atlass Shrugged" was to show the effect of ideas upon the world. Perhaps 'Atlass' is not quite as easy reading, but it is a more ambitious project.
 
Oh, yes I agree, it's just so densely written. If there were some way to have written it so that it was more readable. When recommending Rand, I always recommend The Fountainhead and The Virtue of Selfishness. Should interest be piqued (sp?) then I recommend Atlas Shrugged.

Have you read Leonard Peikoff's The Ominous Parallels? Really well articulated analysis of the relationship of Aristotle to the Declaration and the relationship of Kant to totalitarianism. It is spot on in its analysis.
 
Oh yes. I read it back in 1995, loaned it out and haven't seen it since. When will I learn?

Aristotle is out, Kant is the current philosophical force in America. The evil little destroyer in in control of all american classrooms today. Hence my rant against public schools.

Kant was brought to America during the last half of the Twentieth Century by american graduate students studying in Germany. Just as he gave birth to facism there, so is he trying to here. The pity is that here, as in early Twentieth Century Europe, his only real opposition are the followers of Marxist\Leninism. Where are the public voices of the descendants of Aristotle, the thinker who made it possible for America to become the freest, most prosperous nation on earth? I fear, that for the most part, they have joined Kant.
 
As Peikoff observed, "In the struggle between The Critique of Pure Reason and The Declaration of Independence, the Critique is winning hands down.

The slope between the New Deal and the total state has gotten extremely slippery in the last ten years.

People think we're crazy for demonstrating the theory of totalitarianism and observing its application historically.

I like the John Galt solution myself.

Or, as Robert L. Kocher says, and I paraphrase, "We'vew got to get out of the Matrix."

Check out
http://www.zolatimes.com/writers/kocher.html


Start at the bottom, and work your way up.
If you liked Leonard Peikoff, you'll really love this stuff. Kocher's an engineer, and his sentences are as precise as his circuits must be. And he has a rather droll wit about him
You'll like it.

[This message has been edited by Munro Williams (edited April 27, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Munro Williams (edited April 27, 2000).]
 
You mean it's over? :confused:

Sheezz, I was thinking it had just changed geographical locations, like here in the old United States.

I thought it was going on between us and THEM.

Best Regards,
Don

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The most foolish mistake we could make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms; history shows that all conquerers who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall.
Adolf Hitler

[This message has been edited by Donny (edited April 27, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Donny (edited April 27, 2000).]
 
Winners:
Russian, Japan, the bankers (I read it too, Paul), and the maxists/communists/liberals/etc. (aka Amerikans)


Losers:
People who believe in personal freedom and choice. IOW, Americans.

A sad state of affairs, no?

TR
 
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