The citizen arrest
- Thread starter bennnn
- Start date
All my sources have said that trying a 'citizens arrest' puts you on very thin legal ice !!!! Avoid it ! Call the police ,get descriptions....The general situation is that you have the right to use lethal force [fire a gun etc] to prevent death or serious injury to you or someone else.
I can imagine Common Sense would have a temper tantrum if it found out I decided to "pull my piece and cell" to make a citizens arrest on some dude stealing women's panties at J.C. Penny's.
That is to say it's probably a good idea to just call the police, and only use your "piece" if it involves the potential for death and/or great bodily harm. (Texas poster to mention that he/she can shoot over property theft after dark in 10…9…8…)
There's a fine line between being a Good Samaritan, and Playing Cop. Be sure you're on the right side of that line.
That is to say it's probably a good idea to just call the police, and only use your "piece" if it involves the potential for death and/or great bodily harm. (Texas poster to mention that he/she can shoot over property theft after dark in 10…9…8…)
There's a fine line between being a Good Samaritan, and Playing Cop. Be sure you're on the right side of that line.
I'm sure it depends on your jurisdiction. However, there is one overarching principle that is valid in every single jurisdiction, guaranteed:
Keep your nose out where it doesn't belong.
What you think is a problem may be fun, may be a brief argument, may be a couple in the throes of very consensual whoopie... YOU are NOT a police officer, and do not, I assume, play one on TV, so don't act like one. If you need to, call the police.
Springmom
Keep your nose out where it doesn't belong.
What you think is a problem may be fun, may be a brief argument, may be a couple in the throes of very consensual whoopie... YOU are NOT a police officer, and do not, I assume, play one on TV, so don't act like one. If you need to, call the police.
Springmom
Baba Louie
New member
No Good Deed ever goes unpunished.
If BG stuff is affecting you personally, or family or friends, if you have witnesses to verify BG behavior, if you have the means and ability to detain, (restrain?) and await the gendarme or transport... and if you have absolutely nothing else to do that day... and also have a great relationship with a good attorney (which should go without saying), go for it.
All the while remembering in the back of your mind that while you are a righteous Dudley Do Right army of one, some BG's actually have friends, family members and fellow ner-do-well associate BG's; that some unscrupulous attorney type, upon investigating your financial standing and status, might suggest to someone near and dear to your self collared BG that somehow, YOU, violated HIS civil rights in one fashion or another and the proverbial pot of gold is waiting for them at the end of this rainbow you call your private life.
Not that you should let that stop you from doing a good thing. Just re-read my first sentence.
And know your local laws.
If BG stuff is affecting you personally, or family or friends, if you have witnesses to verify BG behavior, if you have the means and ability to detain, (restrain?) and await the gendarme or transport... and if you have absolutely nothing else to do that day... and also have a great relationship with a good attorney (which should go without saying), go for it.
All the while remembering in the back of your mind that while you are a righteous Dudley Do Right army of one, some BG's actually have friends, family members and fellow ner-do-well associate BG's; that some unscrupulous attorney type, upon investigating your financial standing and status, might suggest to someone near and dear to your self collared BG that somehow, YOU, violated HIS civil rights in one fashion or another and the proverbial pot of gold is waiting for them at the end of this rainbow you call your private life.
Not that you should let that stop you from doing a good thing. Just re-read my first sentence.
And know your local laws.
RioShooter
New member
Absolutely. If I see an adult male dragging a screaming and terrified 5 year old girl through a parking lot, I'll mind my own business. If her nude and mutilated body is found the next day, well, she's not my child.
At least I didn't put myself at risk.
Give me a blinking break. That is NOT what I said. I said, approach in a non-confrontational manner. I said, call 911. I said, things are not always what they seem.
We want to be helpful, good people, and I'm convinced that the vast majority of us really ARE. But let's say you come upon a couple in a back alley, they're, um, loud in their, um, togetherness. You may think "rape" and you may end up finding out "drunken whoopee". And you may not like the consequences.
What you SEE is not always what IS. All I'm saying is, don't butt in unless you can be utterly certain what you're seeing. So, if I go down to the local corner store for my legendary 44-oz Diet Cherry Coke (they all know me and all know what it is I'm there for unless I stay at the gas pumps!) and if while I fill my cup I hear, "THIS IS A STICKUP" and I see a gun pointed at the clerk, I will know what's going on and I will not hesitate to react to protect her. I might add, one of the reasons I will know in that instance is I know those folks and I'm pretty aware of most of the folks that go in there. Nobody who's a regular would do this as a joke, so....if it happens, I'm ready.
However, as someone posted on a previous thread not long ago (an LEO off duty, IIRC) he was doing just this thing when a young man did just that, yelled "THIS IS A STICKUP" and guess what? It was a friend of the young clerk's having a bit of 'fun' with her She knew instantly he was being a doofus and just laughed it off, but the cop decided to teach this little twit a lesson and snuck up behind him, weapon out, and confronted him. Kid s*** himself, as the cop pointed out that it *COULD* have been an instantaneous turn-and-shoot.
But the officer waited until he was sure what was really happening. If you don't do that, if you aren't absolutely certain, if you think carrying a gun gives you the right to stick your nose into everything you see that "looks wrong" you are behaving dangerously. You're more likely to hurt an innocent than save one.
Your response is immature and polemical and utterly missed the point.
Springmom
We want to be helpful, good people, and I'm convinced that the vast majority of us really ARE. But let's say you come upon a couple in a back alley, they're, um, loud in their, um, togetherness. You may think "rape" and you may end up finding out "drunken whoopee". And you may not like the consequences.
What you SEE is not always what IS. All I'm saying is, don't butt in unless you can be utterly certain what you're seeing. So, if I go down to the local corner store for my legendary 44-oz Diet Cherry Coke (they all know me and all know what it is I'm there for unless I stay at the gas pumps!) and if while I fill my cup I hear, "THIS IS A STICKUP" and I see a gun pointed at the clerk, I will know what's going on and I will not hesitate to react to protect her. I might add, one of the reasons I will know in that instance is I know those folks and I'm pretty aware of most of the folks that go in there. Nobody who's a regular would do this as a joke, so....if it happens, I'm ready.
However, as someone posted on a previous thread not long ago (an LEO off duty, IIRC) he was doing just this thing when a young man did just that, yelled "THIS IS A STICKUP" and guess what? It was a friend of the young clerk's having a bit of 'fun' with her She knew instantly he was being a doofus and just laughed it off, but the cop decided to teach this little twit a lesson and snuck up behind him, weapon out, and confronted him. Kid s*** himself, as the cop pointed out that it *COULD* have been an instantaneous turn-and-shoot.
But the officer waited until he was sure what was really happening. If you don't do that, if you aren't absolutely certain, if you think carrying a gun gives you the right to stick your nose into everything you see that "looks wrong" you are behaving dangerously. You're more likely to hurt an innocent than save one.
Your response is immature and polemical and utterly missed the point.
Springmom
DobermansDoItGoofy
New member
Be a good Witness - not someone who needs a good Witness !
Seriously, I would avoid trying to make a Citizen's Arrest. Here's the reasons: 1) Are you interpreting the law correctly? If not - you might be arresting someone who doesn't need to be arrested... 2) Is it a your word against their word situation? Think about it ! 3) Kidnaping and False Arrest Charges can be nasty. 4) Is an arrest really needed now , or is this a situation more in need of a good witness. For example, if someone assaults someone - you might be of more help by being a credible witness than a part of the actual dtnamic of the assault. 5) If you make a Citizen's Arrest with a firearm you'd better be 100% certain there was an imminent danger of serious harm ie. you don't want to be whipping out a gun and holding it on some teenager you think has just vandalized your property... Think ! Even in a situation where you see serious imminent harm - you might help the situation a lot more by getting tag numbers and accurate descriptions and concentrating on being a good witness. You can intervene in a lot of ways too without whipping out a gun or trying to make a 'citizen's arrest'. A lot of times the appearance of what's going on - is not what's actually going on !
I have seen one citizen's arrest that was needed and successful; it was the apprehension of a drunk driver who was drunk out of his mind and who was trying to get back in his car and go off again onto the highway. No FIREARM was required to make that citizen's arrest...and the police were called promptly by the person making the arrest. I'd say it was an exceptional situation and maybe the exception just reenforces the rule of trying to avoid ever making a citizen's arrest.
Seriously, I would avoid trying to make a Citizen's Arrest. Here's the reasons: 1) Are you interpreting the law correctly? If not - you might be arresting someone who doesn't need to be arrested... 2) Is it a your word against their word situation? Think about it ! 3) Kidnaping and False Arrest Charges can be nasty. 4) Is an arrest really needed now , or is this a situation more in need of a good witness. For example, if someone assaults someone - you might be of more help by being a credible witness than a part of the actual dtnamic of the assault. 5) If you make a Citizen's Arrest with a firearm you'd better be 100% certain there was an imminent danger of serious harm ie. you don't want to be whipping out a gun and holding it on some teenager you think has just vandalized your property... Think ! Even in a situation where you see serious imminent harm - you might help the situation a lot more by getting tag numbers and accurate descriptions and concentrating on being a good witness. You can intervene in a lot of ways too without whipping out a gun or trying to make a 'citizen's arrest'. A lot of times the appearance of what's going on - is not what's actually going on !
I have seen one citizen's arrest that was needed and successful; it was the apprehension of a drunk driver who was drunk out of his mind and who was trying to get back in his car and go off again onto the highway. No FIREARM was required to make that citizen's arrest...and the police were called promptly by the person making the arrest. I'd say it was an exceptional situation and maybe the exception just reenforces the rule of trying to avoid ever making a citizen's arrest.
RioShooter
New member
Springmom,
I agree with you on post #11. However, that's not exactly what you said in post #4. I sure you knew what you meant, but you didn't say it. I interpreted your first post to mean, MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. With or without a CCW, I will help someone in need of help.
I agree with you on post #11. However, that's not exactly what you said in post #4. I sure you knew what you meant, but you didn't say it. I interpreted your first post to mean, MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. With or without a CCW, I will help someone in need of help.
Rio, it would be helpful to read both the posts in this thread AND the ones in the thread that spawned this. Had you done so you would have seen that that is indeed what I've said. Especially as the quote used to start this thread was by ME, from the other thread.
Heaven knows I sure as blank didn't say what YOU said.
Springmom
Heaven knows I sure as blank didn't say what YOU said.
Springmom
Ausserordeutlich
Moderator
This is a subject that does deserve thoughtful discussion. Of course, we don't want to become some kind of Rambo wannabes, but there MUST be some situations where it's clear that intervention is called for. Like most of life, there is no clear-cut, black and white case scenario with an instruction book to go by.
How you're treated, should you intervene, will largely be determined by the jurisdiction in which you acted and the circumstances of the event. It'd be a shame that somebody's loved one suffered grievous harm or death because some armed bystander was too timid to take some action.
I guess I'll just have to depend on my inherent conscience and judgment, should a "situation" arise. I'll certainly do my best to let the police do their job, but most of the time, their job is mopping up a bloody mess and writing reports about how the poor victim was slaughtered.
How you're treated, should you intervene, will largely be determined by the jurisdiction in which you acted and the circumstances of the event. It'd be a shame that somebody's loved one suffered grievous harm or death because some armed bystander was too timid to take some action.
I guess I'll just have to depend on my inherent conscience and judgment, should a "situation" arise. I'll certainly do my best to let the police do their job, but most of the time, their job is mopping up a bloody mess and writing reports about how the poor victim was slaughtered.
atlctyslkr
New member
There is a big difference between making an arrest and detaining someone. You mess up an arrest and it can have bad legal consequences for you. You tell an armed suspect to lay on the ground and you say nothing until the police arrive, much better results. It also helps to have witnesses of your own. I would never attempt to arrest someone but rather only attempt to detain a person attempting to commit a violent felony.
I had a client once who did a citizen's arrest on a non-life-threatening felony that was committed against him - he is absolutely one of the nicest, most trustworthy men in the world. He was initially treated appropriately by the police, but he wound up being charged by the prosecutor, tried for four felonies and convicted of one. After a couple of years on appeal (fortunately, he was allowed appeal bond and did not have to serve time), I got his conviction reversed and got the law of citizen's arrest in New Mexico clarified. The prosecutor declined to prosecute after the clarification of the law.
My former client and lifetime friend is a cop now. And he says that he never would have done the citizen's arrest if he had known how awful his life would become as a result.
That said, I have no idea about the law of citizen's arrest in North Carolina.
My former client and lifetime friend is a cop now. And he says that he never would have done the citizen's arrest if he had known how awful his life would become as a result.
That said, I have no idea about the law of citizen's arrest in North Carolina.
Make Mine a Colt
Inactive
The intent of "Citizen Arrest"?
Perhaps one of the LEO's on here could add to this.
It was my understanding the term "Citizen Arrest" has to do with the fact that an LEO can not arrest someone for committing a misdemeanor that the LEO has not witnessed themselves. In this case he would request a civilian who had witnessed the commission of the misdemeanor to make a "Citizen Arrest" so that an arrest by the officer can be made. In effect you would be stating that you were willing to make a formal complaint regarding the commission of a misdemeanor so that a formal arrest can be made on the spot.
Comments?
Bob
Perhaps one of the LEO's on here could add to this.
It was my understanding the term "Citizen Arrest" has to do with the fact that an LEO can not arrest someone for committing a misdemeanor that the LEO has not witnessed themselves. In this case he would request a civilian who had witnessed the commission of the misdemeanor to make a "Citizen Arrest" so that an arrest by the officer can be made. In effect you would be stating that you were willing to make a formal complaint regarding the commission of a misdemeanor so that a formal arrest can be made on the spot.
Comments?
Bob
What you described is very typical of most arrests - a citizen signs a complaint articulating/alledging what so-so did that is against the law. Then the cops will typically get a warrant and make an arrest after the fact. IF a dispute is ongoing - the cop could make the arrest and then get the victim citizen to sign the complaint afterwards. The judge will then get involved (even woken up if necessary) for to handle dealing with what to do wth the BG.
What is being discussed here is a citizen actually detaining (arresting) the person - personally. That is a citizen's arrest.
What is being discussed here is a citizen actually detaining (arresting) the person - personally. That is a citizen's arrest.