The Case For State Pheasant Stocking Programs

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. The first thing to take over little patches of unattended areas are the weed/seed plants. I live in a mountainous area now, but the last place I lived was bird heaven (Without the birds). The farm fields went right up to people's back yards. Most developments and houses had patches of woods and scrub areas attached.
Wild pheasants? Maybe, but I doubt it. I hear that from hunters that are to young to know the difference. I always ask how many hens they see. The answer is always "None".
 
At present, the only spot in my area that has pheasants is on heavily row cropped land which is broken up by CRP fields. The farmers don't pay any attention to "nesting" periods in regard to haying and the crop land gets sprayed just the same as anywhere else.
We often see one or maybe 10 pheasants in a one mile stretch of highway year round. The major landowner asked us to trap his farm in 2014 and we took out 50+ coons and unknown number of possums and skunks (didn't trap this winter because it wasn't worthwhile $$ wise)so nest predation should have been reduced. In the last 15 months we've killed 8-10 coyotes and a couple of foxes on his place so that factor has also been reduced.
Pheasants CAN survive naturally but they can't live on grass and weed seed nor can they survive high predation.
 
Pheasants CAN survive naturally but they can't live on grass and weed seed nor can they survive high predation.


I never said Pheasants can survive in large numbers when numbers of Predators is high Mobuck, only that you will never see a bounty on Raptors, that bounties do little to increase the amount of animals killed and that the elimination of all Raptors and other predators that feed heavily on rodents, would lead to an explosion in the numbers of nuisance rodents. I shoot every coyotes I see, same goes for raccoon and foxes when they are in season. I call for yotes and fox and probably will this Sunday before I cut wood. Fox season ends this Sunday.

But I did say that pheasant survival is more complicated than most folks think. I used to have a Game Farm license and raised pheasants and quail for many years, both to release on my property and to train my bird dogs with. I know a little bit about them both and what it takes for them to survive. Grass and weed seeds are important for both. You do know that corn is a grass, right? As are wheat, barley, millet, oats, sorghum, and rye. All good food sources for Pheasants and Quail. But they are not readily available year round. This is another thing most folks don't fathom. The only time they are in Pheasant habitat is during hunting season when those crops have matured and there is food all over.

If all the environmental and farming practices are hurting the game bird populations, why don't the thousands of acres of Conservation Commission land have birds? Managed 100% for wild game(especially quail/pheasants) with a nearly unlimited budget and still no birds.

Because not all CRP land is managed expressly for Pheasants. Because not all native grasses and plants(promoted by CRP programs) are conducive to game birds. You've said so yourself.

At present, the only spot in my area that has pheasants is on heavily row cropped land which is broken up by CRP fields.

It sounds as if that area has good habitat which is a balance of ag land and undisturbed and is also large enough to establish a population. Again, it takes habitat, along with the control of predators......balance. Still, since Pheasants are not native, they once had to be stocked there or someplace near-by. Here in Wisconsin we have many farms that look exactly the same from the road. Some have birds, some don't The biggest difference between the two is hunting pressure and whether or not birds had been released there. Many times it's the farmers kids in FFA that raised the birds and put them out. Around here for private land to get state birds, the landowner must open their land to public hunting. Most landowners are not willing to do this so most birds are released on public land with marginal habitat and heavy pressure. For years I have been going to our Spring Conservation Congress hearings and trying to get the state to put some of the effort and monies they use on Pheasant stocking to stock quail. Quail are native to the state and once were in good numbers here. Have gotten little response as the majority of the monies comes from the sale of Pheasant stamps and not from general license fees. They feel that most folks don't want another stamp(we already have waterfowl, turkey and pheasant along with trout and Great Lakes) and are hoping that private organizations and individual landowners will do it for them. So far it isn't working.

I'm a big Musky fisherman. I'd love for every body of water in the state to hold Muskies so I could go anywhere to fish them. Problem is, like Pheasants, they don;t survive everywhere and need the correct food chain and habitat. While they get stocked in many waters, they only are native in a few and need to be restocked continuously to maintain fishable numbers. Similar to Pheasants.

If I was failing at my job, I'd learn to be good at blaming Mother Nature, too.

Mother nature has little to do with it. Pheasants are not native here and were brought here by man so they could be hunted. They and similar land game birds were not here previously because our habitat did not promote such animals. Man had to make the habitat, plus stock the birds. We now produce marginal habitat and stock it with birds than have a marginal chance of surviving. Wildlife managers have very little control over habitat on private lands and very little monies to control habitat on public land. You want to blame someone, blame private land owners that don't care enough about Pheasants or have other priorities and those folks that want to hunt public lands for free.
 
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another thing to consider is that whether the pheasant is stocked or wild but is what the winter and spring weather is like. a bad winter around here in Nebraska will kill off guail for sure and a lot of pheasants. a real wet spring won't do them any good either. I haven't seen any quail in quite a few years. Nebraska used to be noted for pheasant hunting but now for however many reasons you want to use there are more turkeys than pheasants.
 
The problem is we are arguing about where we live. Some states have wild pheasants, some do not. PA does not. We have the habitat, just no breeding birds. Back in the "Good old days", there were more pheasants killed on the road than the predators could do now.
 
Eastern Washington 'planted' Hungarian Partridge, which is a Central Asian Chukkar, decades ago, to pique the hunting economy. The little guys took to the semi-arid hills quite well and are now 'native'.
 
Me:If all the environmental and farming practices are hurting the game bird populations, why don't the thousands of acres of Conservation Commission land have birds? Managed 100% for wild game(especially quail/pheasants) with a nearly unlimited budget and still no birds.
Buck:Because not all CRP land is managed expressly for Pheasants. Because not all native grasses and plants(promoted by CRP programs) are conducive to game birds. You've said so yourself.
I'm not talking about CRP(please actually read the part about "Conservation Commission land"), I'm talking about STATE OWNED AND MANAGED LAND. This land is managed 100% for game habitat by the bunny cops.

I'm done. No response will result in anything but more propaganda.
 
MObuck, it seems to me sometimes that Missouri takes a hands off approach to managing some of their properties. Food plots I am sure are expensive to plant but sure seems like at time they are flat out just not doing it. There are only a few areas that I am aware of that are specifically managed for a single target species. I know Bilby Ranch used to be their shining jewel for pheasants, and there were a lot of birds there, and even more hunters, decided that if I got out of there alive I wasn't going back. I agree with MDC doing what they can in an area to promote and encourage game bird survival and reproduction, but if the birds can't adapt to survive with what the real world has then they aren't ever going to be lots of them.
 
"I know Bilby Ranch used to be their shining jewel for pheasants, and there were a lot of birds there, and even more hunters, decided that if I got out of there alive I wasn't going back"

I hunted Bilby a couple of times when my older Son lived in NW MO. As noted, it was either a circus or a total bust.

I guess I'm just getting fed up with hearing the farmers and landowners getting all the blame for "habitat destruction" causing low bird numbers when MDC can't maintain a population with all the resources they have. Look at it this way: w/o landowners, MDC doesn't have much.
 
Agreed MObuck. I wouldn't be quite as skeptical toward MDC (whom I work with regularly) if they had better habitat on many of the lands they manage or own. Yes without landowners (97% of the land or something like that) support it doesn't work. Honestly I haven't heard anyone around here anyway blaming landowners, but sometimes I don't listen to those types very well.
 
I guess I'm just getting fed up with hearing the farmers and landowners getting all the blame for "habitat destruction" causing low bird numbers when MDC can't maintain a population with all the resources they have. Look at it this way: w/o landowners, MDC doesn't have much.

I don't see anyone here blaming farmers and landowners. With the small profit margin they make a ling off from, they have other priorities for the most part, other than worrying about Pheasants. Even if they are a pheasant hunter, most are going to go for turning a profit and staying in business, over shooting a few birds. Modern farming practices have made so that land that once was unprofitable to till, now makes the difference at the end of the year whether they are in the red or the black. Unfortunately, those same practices are detrimental to pheasant habitat. Only in places in SD where farmers make monies from lease payments and daily hunting fees, do they actively promote Pheasant habitat on a large scale....and this is what it takes, large parcels of land manged for Pheasant habitat. Not a 20 acre patch here and there, but large contiguous tracts of thousands of acres in order to sustain breeding populations. Otherwise you are always looking at stocking. Same goes for hunting pressure. When hunters outnumber birds on public access lands, you will never end up with a viable breeding population. Here in Wisconsin, in order to hunt pheasants, you need a pheasant stamp. This is what pays for stocked birds and habitat improvement. I live close to and hunt pheasant on a 8600 acre tract dedicated to recreation. 800 acres or so is planted in corn and soybeans. Most of it is managed primarily for wildlife habitat. They stock pheasants there on a weekly basis thru-out the hunting season. They stocked approximately 3000 birds there this year. Our season ended on Dec. 31. Two weeks ago I took the bird dog there looking for grouse and to scout for Spring turkeys. I never saw even just one pheasant track even tho the snow was a week old.......and this is prime habitat. Wrong strain of birds and too much pressure. I was told stocking Wild strain would mean only 1/4 of the birds would be released due to the difference in costs. Hunter success and thus satisfaction would be much lower, resulting in loss of revenue because next year less folks would buy stamps......meaning even less birds released next year. Even tho the habitat is some of the most prime in the whole state, because survival rate is so low they allow folks to shoot both hens an roosters, before the weather and the predators get them. Even tho hardly a day goes by once there is now on the ground, where you won't see several trucks with dog trailers behind them hunting 'yotes.

I've been blessed to own and hunt behind many great bird dogs. I have a GWP female right now that is just getting into her prime and is exceptional. I have hunted birds here in Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska and South Dakota. Both wild and stocked birds. I also regularly hunt birds at a shooting preserve just minutes from my house. In the long run, the points were just as pretty, the shooting just as hard and the cover just as thick, regardless of where I was. I will continue to hunt pheasant till I can no longer walk the cover behind a dog, and will continue to contribute to Pheasants Forever, buy State Pheasant stamps and buy my annual 50 birds from the local Preserve for after the regular season. When that rooster cackles in front of the dog's nose and blows up outta the snow, the last thing I care about as I lay my cheek on Grandpa's old 16ga. SxS, is whether it's wild or stocked.
 
....and this is what it takes, large parcels of land manged for Pheasant habitat. Not a 20 acre patch here and there, but large contiguous tracts of thousands of acres in order to sustain breeding populations.
How do trails fit into that contiguous tracts requirement? Does a corridor 100 yards wide going across six states linking large preserves help with wildlife more than small patches, or not? I have been looking at supporting some proposed national trails or expansions similar to the Appalachian Trail, and this is a question I keep coming back to without any clear answers.
 
When that rooster cackles in front of the dog's nose and blows up outta the snow, the last thing I care about as I lay my cheek on Grandpa's old 16ga. SxS, is whether it's wild or stocked.

My gun doesn't know the difference between wild or stocked but it does its best.

I think wisconsin actually does a good job or the best job they can do for hunters. The DNR has told me on several occasions that no birds survive the winter. That's bull as I have seen several in april and may.

If you want to improve pheasant hunting just pass a no dog law for a few years. Yes I like dogs but they make it to easy some days. This last season I shot 24 birds in Southern Wisconsin. I stepped on 4 in deep grass and they were as wild as could be even if stock. When a bird blows up in your face and scares you that's wild.

Last year I saw plenty of guys sitting in the parking lot of hunting areas waiting on the DNR to stock the birds. Then they would go hunt down the road as the birds were being thrown out. They would bag out in 15 minutes and leave. On days the DNR didn't come they would sit there till sundown while I hunted and some days bagged birds without a dog. On weeks they only released once it was quite funny.

Now that I said that bring your dogs and bring someone to introduce them to pheasant hunting. Even without a dog I have introduced two people who are now hooked. I even participated in a father son hunt where two other guys and myself were hunting with a dog and we found one and called this 10 year old and his father over who weren't far off. The kid got the bird and was happy. I didn't even care that I didn't shoot that day.
 
The DNR has told me on several occasions that no birds survive the winter. That's bull as I have seen several in april and may.

I think they mean there are so few birds that survive the winter, that they consider it none. I've had the privilege to hunt a friends farm for 40 years. Back when I used to raise pheasants,(30 years ago) I would always release a dozen or so(under a dog training permit) there. While the farmer didn't hunt them, he enjoyed seeing them as he worked the fields. They always disappeared. His boys and grandsons over the years would get birds thru FFA, raise them and release them. Still by the following spring, they were never seen again. Still every morning during spring turkey hunting there, I hear a least three roosters crowing somewhere in the vicinity. Still, no one ever sees them. I don't hunt there with my dog......I'd miss not hearing them on the days there are no gobbles close by.


If you want to improve pheasant hunting just pass a no dog law for a few years.

For me, it's all about the dogs. If it weren't for the love of watching the dogs work, I'd probably retire from Pheasant hunting. Back when I was a kid I watched the original B&W movie "The Biscuit Eater". I was about 8 or 9 years old. I've been in love with Pointers ever since. Have had them consistently since 1975. Before that I hunted pheasants with labs. Nuttin' I love more than telling a dog on staunch point...."get 'em up!"

I didn't even care that I didn't shoot that day.

Been there, done that. My Grandson's birthday is coming up. Part of his birthday present is gonna be taking him and a few of his friends to the club for a pheasant hunt. His first. Doubt iffin I'll even take my gun. Odds are someday, Grandpa's old SxS will be brought up to his cheek.
 
Somedays when I bag out I watch the other dogs work. I like the dogs but I think people rely on the to much. And blame them when they don't product.

I once hunted with this guy off and on for a season who was training his dog to be the best dog he use to have and he yelled at the dog all day long. I would see the dog get birdy and when a bird wasn't produced immediately he would call the dog off even though the dog didn't want to leave his bird. A few times I was able to flush the birds but then I wasn't the best shot. Now when I see that hunter yelling at his dog I go the other way.

Toward the end of that season the dog started running off and the hunter would tell me to stay there as he went to find the dog. 30 minutes later the dog would come back to me and I never knew where the guy went. We would hunt together and usually bag birds till the frustrated hunter came back and scolded the dog.

Camping in the Hudson Wisconsin area in May a few years ago every morning I woke up to pheasants. Just put a smile on my face.
 
Actually if they released them in the suburbs they might populate quite well but there would be no reward to hunters as they would probably stay there and eat from bird feeders.

Wisconsin has a number of state public hunting properties that it plants pheasants. Some are near closed areas where they also plant hens and those areas are the ones where I see surviving birds in the spring. If you plant 90 percent or more of males there isn't going to be a reproducing population.

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/pheasantmap.html
 
I'm still of the belief that no matter how many they stock, very few will live long enough to breed.

Maybe instead of arguing that point, we should be pushing our state agencies to band every released bird to know when and where it was released. Then they could easily determine how many unbanded birds are shot, and how many banded birds from a prior year are shot. This kind of research would take the speculation out of it. This could also track test methods of breeding and raising the birds with methods that might better help them survive upon release.
 
That's an interesting idea. I'm sure they would shoot it down due to cost of whatever material the bands were made of even if they were free. But I do like the idea.
 
Buying engraved or RFID bands and then installing the would probably be fairly expensive. Might be able to get funding to try it in one state or something though. I'm not sure how many birds they actually release.
 
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