The brain washing of our youth.

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PP, good answer. Thanks. The question about your professional qualifications was not meant to lower the value of your input here. I really am curious if you are a licensed witch doctor :) ... just kidding, but still curious.

Hey guys, Doug.38PR has backed off the religious input as well as he can, having already made it. Let's please let it go and stay on topic.
 
Bud,

Sorry, I missed part of your question. My Masters Degree is in Psychology. My undergraduate degree was a BFA in ART Education. I was a K-12 certified teacher specializing in art and science. My mental health background includes working with the public and private school systems dealing with behavioraly challenged students and then moving on to work with at risk youth for CPS and then later for homeless youth outreach programs such as Janus Youth and Wiallamette Bridge.

Now I am a hammer jockey (flip houses) and soon to be bar owner. So my degree is just a very expensive and usless pice of pretty paper. :)
 
Doug.38PR

What you are basically saying is you want kids to hear what you believe whether it stands up to scientific scrutiny or not.
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I don't believe what public schools teach does stand up to scientific scrutiny. More to the point, public schools are saying that evolution (et al) IS scientific and there is no question about it, it is the absolute truth. I believe this to be wrong. As a parent, it would be irresponsible of me to allow this to go on. I say what my child is taught, not some government institution


You want them to have your values wether those values are positive or not.
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I said I wanted to teach my children good values, respecting adults, having good social contact with good peers, etc. They don't receive this in a public school.

As far as you not wanting to turn it into a religous debate, it seems like every statement you made was based solely on religion. My statements were from a professional standpoint and I based them on experience and reason. I made no value judgements as to why this children seemed to have problems. I just stated that they did. this is fact. the rate of homeschooled children needing additional aid both in the educational aspect of schooling and in dealing with being able to get along with other children, not violating boundries between child and teacher are all just fact.
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Not solely on religion. My comments were also based on history, reason and experience (much of it personal experience as I spent most of my school years in public school:barf: ) BUT, the usual implication and next step (and maybe you personally didn't intend it this way) of such conclusions as you mentioned is that "see, children need to be in public school. taking them out of public school and home schooling them hurts their development." I've heard these arguments before.
 
I had the opportunity to see the difference between "home schooled" and "public schooled" among my friends kids. If I had it to do over again, my kids would definately be home schooled. Here's a book on the subject that is worth reading.
http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/pages/book.htm
A WHISTLEBLOWER'S ACCOUNT

Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt, former Senior Policy Advisor in the U.S. Department of Education, blew the whistle in the `80s on government activities withheld from the public. Her inside knowledge will help you protect your children from controversial methods and programs. In this book you will discover:

-how good teachers across America have been forced to use controversial, non-academic me
-how "school choice" is being used to further dangerous reform goals, and how home schooling and private education are especially vulnerable.
-how workforce training (school-to-work) is an essential part of an overall plan for a global economy, and how this plan will shortcircuit your child's future career plans and opportunities.
-how the international, national, regional, state and local agendas for education reform are all interconnected and have been for decades.

A CHRONOLOGICAL PAPER TRAIL

the deliberate dumbing down of america is a chronological history of the past 100+ years of education reform. Each chapter takes a period of history and recounts the significant events, including important geopolitical and societal contextual information. Citations from government plans, policy documents, and key writings by leading reformers record the rise of the modern education reform movement. Americans of all ages will welcome this riveting expose of what really happened to what was once the finest education system in the world.

Readers will appreciate the user-friendliness of this chronological history designed for the average reader not just the academician. This book will be used by citizens at public hearings, board meetings, or for easy presentation to elected officials.

Publication of the deliberate dumbing down of america is certain to add fuel to the fire in this nation's phonics wars. Iserbyt provides documentation that Direct Instruction, the latest education reform fad in the classroom, is being institutionalized under the guise of "traditional" phonics thanks to the passage of the unconstitutional Reading Excellence Act of 1998.
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badbob
 
badbob,

I agree people should read that book. I am always saying people should look at things from all angles before forming their own decisions.

Keep in mind though that Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt, to my knowledge, has not true teaching nor mental health credentials beyong holding a local elected position on a school board and being a policy advisor for Reagan. Policy advisors are not experts in their fields. They are partisan party members appointed by the ruling party. They seldom bring any expertise and almost always bring an agenda.

If someone knows more about her let me know. I have only seen one interview with her and she completely evaded the questions regarding her credentials. Sighting only the credentials I listed above. I have also seen that she has in the past been associated only with very conservative groups and was giver her position due to campaign efforts and her conservative views.
 
PP - I did a quick search on homeschool growth, and as near as I can tell, it's still growing. The numbers are a bit ambiguous because of the decentralized nature of homeschooling and different standards of reporting between states.

I don't have a degree in Psych, but I do have some personal, first hand experience with homeschooling and the kids that I have seen seem to be well adjusted. Do you have any idea of the percentage of homeschoolers who seem maladjusted compared to the percentage of public school kids who also have problems?

As far as values go, You're darn tootin' that I want my children to reflect my values. If this is considered brainwashing, so be it. Why would I want them to have the values of a complete stranger, hired by a school district? Why would I want them to reflect the values of television or movies?
 
Abndoc,

I am sure the number of children home schooled could very well still be increasing. The increase was very dramatic though in the early 90's. Now it is a number more congruent with the population expansion.

As for the number of homeschooled students to have difficulty, when I was working with transitional students about 90% of the kids transitioning from homeschool to public needed assistance with getting up to speed in the three R's as we call them. About 70% experienced issues outside of acedemic needs.

At the time, children that were home schooled were also a lot LESS likely to attend institutions of higher learning than children from public schools.
Alot of people used this number to tear down the institution of home schooling but I felt those numbers were misleading. Because, on the other hand, children from private schools were MORE likely to attend college. It was also true that children from private schools were more likely to be from wealthier families and home schooled children were more likely to be from poorer families. I felt this was the true reason for the difference in the number of them attending college...not the education itself. I also think that might account for some of the socialization issues. I grew up very poor in a little coal mine town. I can tell you being poor ain't easy.

As for what I want my future children to believe...I do not currently have kids but I do have nieces and nephews. The biggest thing I want them to learn from me is how to think for themselves, how to ask questions, how to catagorize information, and how to look at things with an analytical mind. Then I want them to hear all they can about issues and make up their own minds. I want them to be individuals with their own beliefs, not carbon copies of my own failings.

I have a hard enough time dealing with the prejudices my family, my upbringing, and my own personal ignorance have placed upon me...I don't want my kids to have to deal with my issues also.
 
Brainwashing

Original premise of thread is kids are being braiwashed by society input.
TV,Games ETC.
And that this generation of kids has been unduly influenced by that input.

There is nothing inherently wrong with Either public schooling or Homeschooling.
As with all in life, there is some good and some bad.
TV, Games Etc are only influences on kids with no grounded fundamentals.. that is Parents who care and are involved.

If kids are taught right from wrong from birth and that is reinforced by adults
Parents, teachers, Grandparents, religious and political leaders they will function as normal good old fashioned kids.

If the media is unfit turn it off, expalin why it is unfit.. the kids will then determine on their own if it is unfit.

Do not underestimate this current generation. I 4 teenagers that are much better adjusted and focused than I ever was at their age.

I have met hundreds of their friends and teammates.. the majority are great kids.. the bad kids you find most of the kids shun.

It really is up to us to form the character and provide expectations and guidance to the youth. When this happens you find like most everybody in life they will respond to positive input with positive reaction.

Want good kids.. take them fishing and hunting and a ball game. ask about their dreams and fears, share yours.
 
I have been trying to discern what most of you are trying to say for about 30 minutes here and I'm still not 100% sure. It's kinda all over the place, but on the topics I'm clear on I'll weigh in.

Tv is Tv. Plain and simple. It's not real and if you teach that to your kids they'll be fine. Blaming tv and games for the downfall of society is lazy. If you are parents and your kids are jacked up blame yourselves, if you really did nothing wrong then just blame your rotten egg kid. Clear cut.

Home schooling is good if you can devote the time to it and keep your kids in other extra curricular activities so they can be around other kids. Home schooling is not just for "fundamentalist Christians", but that's all I'll say so as not to revert this to a religious debate. I went to a private school form K-7, public school 8-10 then did 11-12 in home school. I got my GED at the end of 12th grade and scored 30 points away from a perfect score. I'm currently working on a Bachelor's degree in Business Management.

I had quite a good view of the world growing up and experienced several different aspects of the world. I've found children are products of their environments. That is to say if parents take the time and responsibility to help their children experience life correctly and set them on the right course more often than not they will turn out all right.

I think it would behoove us all to quit blaming everything else for our inadequacies as parents and role models. Just my opinion though.
 
The Rich And Famous

Do you know where most actors school their children?

Do you know where most politicians send their kids to learn?

In both cases, little Johnnie goes to an exclusive private school or learns at home with private tutors.
 
+1 marlboro
I agree government schools are terrible. And yes, there are a lot of TV shows and movies that try to influence our children in a leftward way . Anybody mention the movie fern gully yet.

But for me, I think the answer is what it always has been. Parenting, don't let schools or the TV teach morals or Ideology to your kids. I think the problem is parents don't do their job and kids learn these lessons from the wrong sources. I don't have the $$$ for private school or the time for homeschooling. so I just try to do damage control in the time I have with my daughter.
 
PlayboyPenguin ~

The kids you work(ed?) with are kids whose parents have given up homeschooling -- kids for whom it wasn't working, by definition -- rather than kids for whom it was working, and whose parents have kept at it.

Might skew your observations significantly.

pax
 
oldbillthunderchief wrote;

"Oh, man... that's a good one. I'm sure keeping your kids sheltered from normal social interaction will make them completely normal. I'm sure they will do great in college after being schooled in the bible rather than established science...

Kids are not stupid. They can distinguish between hogwash and reality as long as you give them the tools. Jimbob is not planning on giving his kids these powerful tools (analysis with hard science, scepticism, and common sense). That is the most dangerous thing I can think of. "

Bill, you certainly do assume a lot. I never said anything about shielding my children from normal social interaction. They are only 2 and 3 now but they will interract with peers in church and out in the real world. From what I recall of public school all the way up to high school, it was a highly structured artificial environment with no real analog outside of a public school house(maybe prison?). Even college is completely different. I can't see how it is of any benefit to a child to place him/her in such an otherworldly environment for twelve years and then shove them out into reality. Outside of that, a child's behavior is molded to a great extent by his peer group. I would prefer that all important peer group were my wife and myself rather than whatever pack of kids he'd run with at school.

Regarding the "powerfull tools" you'd mentioned, I picked up a certain capacity for "skepticism" not from anything I'd learned in school(they teach "what" to think, not "how" to think) but from reading such books as George Orwell's "1984". I'm not interrested in firing up an evolution/intelligent design debate, but suffice it to say that had I not some capacity for critical thinking that I would still believe in theistic evolution as I did the day I graduated from high school. Evolution isn't a "hard science" and if we're all going to be completely honest it wouldn't be at all difficult to teach any high school level science class without ever mentioning evolution.As an equipment operator at a power plant where we turn coal into electricity, I do have a healthy apreciation for the real "hard sciences" (chemistry and physics) and that shall by no means be neglected in the education of my children. It occurs to me that Wernher von Braun, and I have no idea what he'd heard or what he thought of Mr.Darwin and his theories, but His career would not have suffered the least little bit had he never heard of Darwin. One could say the same of Sir Isaac Newton(he didn't), Steven Hawking,Louis Pasteur or Bill Gates. Regarding the Bible, that is the most important aspect of anyone's education. Men have made Gods of everything under the sun and I won't have my children under the yoke of false gods.

"It is a great consolation for me to remember that the Lord, to whom I had drawn near in humble and child-like faith, has suffered and died for me, and that He will look on me in love and compassion."
~Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
 
I graduated from high school only 4 years ago. And the "social interaction" I was subjected to by all of the thugs, goths, druggies, and more thugs is not something I wish upon any child.

If you honestly think a public school(high school especially) environment is a good place to teach children how to live a good life, you must live in a different world or a different time. The "social interaction" taking place at most high schools in modern America is one of the most socially damaging things in the nation.
 
I graduated from high school only 4 years ago. And the "social interaction" I was subjected to by all of the thugs, goths, druggies, and more thugs is not something I wish upon any child.
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Actually, I think you might feel differently if you knew just how important and valuable those interactions are towards helping children learn how to deal with negative situations and how to make the right choices. Raising a child in a bubble is just not a good idea in my opinion.

The kids you work(ed?) with are kids whose parents have given up homeschooling -- kids for whom it wasn't working, by definition -- rather than kids for whom it was working, and whose parents have kept at it.
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Pax,

No, not exactely. We were also the same organization in charge of evaluating the home school standards and the main resource for homeschoolers in the state. We saw both sides of the coin and every end of the spectrum. Most of the ones that where no longer able to continue being homeschooled were because the parent were not able to meet certain criteria. I rarely saw a parent give up. I just saw parents that just were not qualified to give a child a fighting chance in a competitive higher education system. They usually decided to put their children first when they realized they were putting them at a disadvantage. Most higher priciples cannot be taught from a book without true understanding of the mechanics behind them.
 
While this has been a relatively polite thread, it has veered away from having anything to do with Legal or Political matters.

Gotta close it.
 
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