The brain washing of our youth.

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Okay so the title is a little extreme but I had to get your attention some how. Has anyone ever watched "Captian Planet?" A children's cartoon that I myself used to watch until I got old to figure out what it was realy saying. One of this shows main characters was a hunter portrayed as a dirty trigger happy wart hog. The symbolism is quite obvious. The Simpsons has anti-gun under tones. Family Guy is rapidly anti-gun. The creators of South Park have ties to Michael Moore. Even "Haweye" Pierce of M.A.S.H. is anti-gunThe types of messages that kids are recieving these days is just mind blowing. Just look at the violent video games.(disclaimer: I in no way support govt. censorship of games. I do however support age appropriate game selection) These cartoons and video games and even movies tell kids not to kill animals for any reason. But killing another human for fun and games in okay. And yet we wonder why the next generation is the way it is...:rolleyes:
 
T.V. is bad, Schools are Worse!

All the crapola you saw on captain planet is also taught as "science" in the schools. The wife and I have decided to homeschool when the time comes. We don't care to have our children taught that we came from apes or that their parents are stupid for believing otherwise.
 
Hahahahahahahhahaha!

Oh, man... that's a good one. I'm sure keeping your kids sheltered from normal social interaction will make them completely normal. I'm sure they will do great in college after being schooled in the bible rather than established science...

Kids are not stupid. They can distinguish between hogwash and reality as long as you give them the tools. Jimbob is not planning on giving his kids these powerful tools (analysis with hard science, scepticism, and common sense). That is the most dangerous thing I can think of.

Imagine their shock when they learn that life requires you to deal with people other than your parents skillfully and analyze data with valid scientific theory. Unless they plan to be preachers or... um... I can't think of any other jobs that do not require these skills, actually. Even manual laborers have to be able to communicate with their fellow workers in social situations.
 
I thought I'd come in and post some of my own observations on the topics already discussed.

Captain Planet may be slightly left leaning, but it also teaches your kids that you should care about what's going on around you. It never taught complete doctrine any more than the cartoons you or I watched as children. I admit that it was a bit heavy-handed with the environmental issue, but that's what it was about. The hunter you were talking about was a profiteering developer known for slash and burn. I don't see you jumping on Warner Brothers for portraying hunters as stupid, stuttering, slow-witted people like Elmer Fudd.

The Simpsons is most definitely not anti-gun. This show mocks anything and everything; even their own fans. Lisa Simpson went on a crusade to ban all guns in one episode, only resulting in the town being overrun with undead characters (Halloween episode) waiving handguns. Once the townspeople got their guns back, they won their city back. Hardly anti-gun. I can also recall a number of episodes where the same lesson is taught (methods of defense are removed, invaders take over until inhabitants defend themselves). At most, they present that not every question has an absolute answer and there are many subtle layers to some of the most difficult questions facing our society.

Family Guy and American Dad ARE left leaning shows, and I will concede this. But you have to understand that they have a lot of political satire. I would like you to point me to an episode that directly states that guns are inherently evil or otherwise so that I won't incorrectly comment on this.

The creators of South Park have NO ties with Michael Moore. In fact, Matt Stone has used an image of Moore in one of his cartoons and ridiculed him. Stone professes to be a libertarian; a political group with more dislike of gun control than republicans.

I'm a regular fan of these shoes (except for South Park because I don't have cable TV) and I don't feel this way about them at all. You have to understand the purpose of satire - making fun of things that are complex and making simple observations which may or may not be true.

Shotgun Minister, I feel that you only see what you want to see and not the big picture. If you look at the variety of games available, you'll realize that they don't all come from the same source indicating a sort of hypocrisy that you seem to think they do. Publishers are allowed to produce whatever they like and whatever sells. I've seen a number of games where killing animals isn't discourage (Duck Hunt anyone?) and a number of games where the objective is to NOT kill people although the option is available (Metal Gear series).

Don't take my reply as a bash, just a criticism.


oldbill, you are correct. And people wonder why our nation is slowly lagging behind other countries in vital areas such as science. Unfortunately, when these children grow up into adults, their parents have denied them the opportunities to compete with other young adults in the collegiate field (if they can even make it in) or in the job market as anything outside of scientific field. Evolution and religion are not mutually exclusive and once people realize that, they can really learn some cool stuff. How long did it take to the Roman Catholic church to apologize to Galileo?
 
Oh, and no one has ever postulated that we came from apes. That shows ignorance concerning evolution.

No one said we came from apes, they said we share a common ancestor. That means that apes, as they are now, didn't exist when this ancestor was around. Not that a creature could evolve from another creature with both still existing isn't possible under the theory.
 
I think the original post here is completely off base. I agree that 3rd rate cartoons like Capt. Planet are pretty transparently preachy (the episode you are speaking about was an episode against trophy hunting, not firearms if I remember correctly) but shows like Family Guy and the Simpsons are not anti-gun. In fact that use parody, and sardonic whit to make fun of people that are anti anything. When they make jokes and outrageous scenes where firearms are used they poke at the things that ianti-gunnies like to tout as fact and point out that is is just ridiculous and inane. the point out the absurdity of being completely "anti-anything".
 
Brainwashing? I always like to see this word used, as in this case, as it is used as a more modern day version of witchcraft terminology to indicate a feeling of lack of control on what is going on around us when we don't agree with some trend, perspective, message.

Fortunately, I grew up with "programming" (why do you think they call it that anyway?) where shows depicted kids playing cops and robbers, cowboys and Indians where it was okay to point toy guns at one another and yell "Bang!" while pulling the trigger. Of course, they were toys, not actual guns, but now I am surrounded by Eddie the Eagle paranoid NRA gun rules types that are trying to ruin such fun and games by applying real gun rules to toy guns even though toy guns are not actually guns. And you don't you think that is brainwashing that even non-guns are considered guns?

Don't worry. I know the logic of transference behind the teachings. Still, it was okay for the storyline of the Mickey Mouse Club camp series in my day to play such games.

In my day, we all knew hunters on cartoons were cool, strong, and very smart anti-environmentalists. Elmer Fudd has always represented that higher standard and he isn't followed too far by Wile E. Coyote.

Of course, we also learned that all bad guys would be defeated by good guys, usually due to a character flaw, and that in the end, we would all live happily ever after. That was reflected in countless shows such as Superman, anything with Roy Rogers, the Rifleman, Rocky and Bullwinkle, Scooby-Doo, Dragnet, etc. Wash this also brainwashing?

I don't think years of therapy could help me get over what Gilligan's Island did to me, but amongst them are greatly enhanced interests in pretty redheaded women in slinky evening dresses and farm girls in pigtails. I can never get on a boat tour without all my luggage...just in case. And because of forums like this, I have about 6 SHTF BOBs full of supplies. And Lord only knows when you will come up against some crazy Japanese submariners who don't know that WWII is over.

One thing I liked in my days was that any movies with good guys and bad guys involved shooting the bad guys. I got to see folks getting shot every night. I grew up believing that a big part of police work was shooting bad guys. I later learned that shooting bad guys is not a high priority for the police...and this troubles me sometimes as obviously it must have been true.

And the stereotypes! If stereotypes can't put your world in order, nothing will. Never mind the sexist, racist, and insulting overtones as they helped put things into a hiearchy that made sense, right?

Shotgun Minister, I guess you are right. They aren't doing our kids right these days, not like they did us.:barf:

Dude, every generation thinks the upcoming generation is full of mush-minded soft bodied malcontents with no respect for authority, right and wrong, etc. That is a passing of the proverbial torch. And yet, we are still here even though we sucked compared to our parents' generation and they did compared to their parents' etc.
 
Test Results

On standardized tests, home schooled kids out score public school kids. Schools teach to low end of the classroom ability. Many of our high school kids do stupid things out of complete boredom. In fact, many troubled kids are smart, they just are not being challenged.
 
I'm sure keeping your kids sheltered from normal social interaction will make them completely normal.

Why do you presuppose that homeschooling keeps kids from normal social interaction?

as long as you give them the tools.

Why do you think, from his short post, that Jimbob won't be giving his kids the tools they need?

Unfortunately, when these children grow up into adults, their parents have denied them the opportunities to compete with other young adults in the collegiate field (if they can even make it in)

Let's see... My eldest daughter started college at 16. Graduated with a BS from UC Davis and is now working on her masters. She also took time out to get married and have two kids. She seems pretty socially adjusted to me.
My next daughter challenged California's high school exit exams at 14 so she could start college. She will have her AA before she is 18. She is already looking toward her BA and MA. Not bad for a couple homeschooled kids.

Seems to me that someones predjudice's are showing. Homeschooling, if done right, is about challenging kids to do and be their best.
 
Bloodbath and Beyond - The gun store on the Simpsons.

Also, I loved Robot Chicken's take on Captain Planet. Note that the kids on Captain Planet carried concealed weapons - those rings were pretty potent.

Can't blame the Simpsons and Captain Planet for failed parents, IMHO.
 
I think it'd be a safe bet that over 90% of homeschoolers are fundamentalist, "born again" Christians. (Not that there's anything wrong with that)*






*apologies to Seinfeld
 
Homeschooling is something that had a real surge in the early 90's. While still not very common it is vastly more common than it used to be but if I remember the last study indicated that homeschooling has declined as states have scrammbled to come up with better guidelines, criteria, and quality testing for homeschooling.

The real test will be to see how homeschoolers faired in the real world once reaching adulthood.

When I was in the mental health field we were facing immense problems with home schooled children trying to be re-intigrated into a mainstream school system after recieving homeschooling for their grade school or middle school education. Either because the parents were unable to meet the criteria for advanced homeschooling or because of other reasons.

The children were FAR behind the other children in peer socialization skills, adult interaction (lacked proper boundries), and almost every other developement stage of growing up. The level of their actual knowledge base varied very widely also. Some were actually more advance in math and reading, and such but most were behind the curve here also due to lack of proper oversight.

So as someone who has looked at homeschooling from both the job of a counselor and a teacher I am usually against it. The children seem to benefit more from a traditional education. Alot of people homeschool for the wrong reasons. To protect their children from a different point of view.

There is a huge difference between "educating" and "indoctrinating".
 
All the crapola you saw on captain planet is also taught as "science" in the schools. The wife and I have decided to homeschool when the time comes. We don't care to have our children taught that we came from apes or that their parents are stupid for believing otherwise.

CURIOSITY YIELDS EVOLUTION...SATIETY YIELDS EXTINCTION!
Ignorance abounds...unfortunately on both sides of the spectrum.
 
There is a huge difference between "educating" and "indoctrinating

Basically what your saying is that society/public schools can give a better education. Perhaps because you teach in public schools you would believe this. Frankly what is accepted as normal in public schools is not and that in my opinion is causing much of the difficulties we face with our work force in the future. Before retiring I hired and worked with new high schools grads in almost all cases I found easier to work with and train kids who were home schooled and most were more mature.

You assume your educating and others who disagree with your Ideas are indoctrinating, again unless public schools change direction it is not a good place for your children.
 
Okay so the title is a little extreme but I had to get your attention some how. Has anyone ever watched "Captian Planet?" A children's cartoon that I myself used to watch until I got old to figure out what it was realy saying. One of this shows main characters was a hunter portrayed as a dirty trigger happy wart hog. The symbolism is quite obvious.

You must be a little younger than me. I stuck to pro gun things like Transformers, G.I. Joe, Robotech, Voltron, Thundercats etc.. When Captain Planet came along (think I had just gotten into 6th or 7th grade), I knew INSTANTLY what it was about. Just listen to the theme song. Even minus it's leftist messages, this queer looking silver man flying around with green hair and these goofy looking kids with rings saving the planet with their mother nature rings held absolutely no interest for a guy when you got through watching giant robots with big guns save the world or warriors with swords and other cool weapons defeat the bad guys or soldiers with rifles, guns and tanks blow each other away. :cool:

Ya know, I think the time Capten Planet came along was when they sissyfied G.I. Joe when it went from Sunbow to DIC. It was more loony toonish, they started coming out with the GI Joe anti pollution force :rolleyes:, anti drug force:rolleyes: and they never would punch or hurt anyone:mad: . :barf: I remember all our friends then started Watching Batman The Animated Series and X-Men on FOX.

All the crapola you saw on captain planet is also taught as "science" in the schools. The wife and I have decided to homeschool when the time comes. We don't care to have our children taught that we came from apes or that their parents are stupid for believing otherwise.

Good for you!!! I don't see how anyone can believe we came from apes and the world and all it's life came from some explosion. That sounds more superstitious and ignorant to me. And they (who believe all came from chaos) call religious people ignorant and superstitous for believing in created order?

As far as Homeschooling kids having social development, the answer is not putting them in a government indoctrination center (AKA public school) so they can dodge gangs and get a lousy education. The answer is putting them in social settings in your local community that you, the parents, have control over such as the church. Interact with other children in healthy settings not poor ones. Public schools and their so-called standards :barf: are not the end all and be all of life (far from it) And you have to be a good parent and raise your children. It's not all about what's in a text book, it's about teaching them social skills and good manners and being considerate of others.

The children were FAR behind the other children in peer socialization skills, adult interaction (lacked proper boundries), and almost every other developement stage of growing up. The level of their actual knowledge base varied very widely also. Some were actually more advance in math and reading, and such but most were behind the curve here also due to lack of proper oversight.

I question a lot of those conclusions. Some of this I mentioned above. Another thing I will say about social skills being difficult is this: This is not necessarily a bad thing (not neccessarily a good thing). Between what public school kids value (or don't value) and what a lot of homeschoolers value, it's awful hard to find anything in common. If I have a kid who is not interested in M-TV, or watching graphic slasher horror movies, or going deaf listening to rap "music" in the car, or impressing everyone by showing them how many four letter words I can use in one sentence I'm going to have an awful hard time finding anything in common with public schoolers. If I believe in saying Yes Sir and No Sir, Yes Ma'am and No ma'am and being respectful to adults and not flipping them off when their back is turned to the blackboard (or to their face) or not spray painting someones car or sneaking out of the house to go do drugs I am going to have an awful hard time getting along with public schoolers. If I have good manners and they don't, I am going to have an awful hard time getting along with home schoolers.

Some of what you say lies not in the fact that they didn't go to a public school but that they got education but no rearing. I know two guys that grew up stuffing their brains with knowledge and education. BUT, to this day they have no people skills. Knowledge base (parents may not be good teachers...public schools are even worse. Solution, find a good teacher not send to public school). Who says public school standards are THE standard for life anyway.

So as someone who has looked at homeschooling from both the job of a counselor and a teacher I am usually against it. The children seem to benefit more from a traditional education. Alot of people homeschool for the wrong reasons. To protect their children from a different point of view.

Well, I don't want my children told that they evolved from someone crawling on the ground and what they are taught in Sunday School is hogwash. You say traditional education, that depends on what you mean by traditional. Public schools as they are now are far from traditional. The way parents train their children (actually maybe I should say they way they just have children and let them grow like weeds) is far from traditional. We need to get away from this idea that education is the one goal in life.



There is a huge difference between "educating" and "indoctrinating".

Right. Educating=public schools Indoctrinating=homeschool or traditionals school (mostly Christian as one poster up the page put it....which BTW served this country well since the 1600s until the 1950s)

As for my children, if by God's grace, I ever have any, we will either send them to a good private traditional school or home school and raise them with good social skills and manners and get them involved with peers in healthy environments like the church
 
As I read down, one of the problems that grew for me was the definition of normal social interaction. As in, I don't see that defined and that definition may be the nub. For the life of me I cannot understand how a child that has been homeschooled for the first, say four years of school, would have a problem of boundaries in regard to interaction with adults. Now it may be an effect of having too much television and I do see some of that today, but it seems a home-schooled child would be one of the "No, sir ... no ma'am" types. I can also see where the ability to interact, socially would be a function of Mom and Dad's rules and what is allowed at home, but that befuddles me somewhat simply because of the behavior expectations a parent has in their interactions with their child over the expectations a teacher may have with the same child.

Even though I grew up with a public school education, I have developed a somewhat jaded view of today's "government school system". Homeschooling, properly done has to be a tremendous burden to the parents. It seems to me that Mom and Dad can just forget about hobbies and extra curricular activities. The social interaction with others my own age group is undoubtedly one of one of my biggest benefits up through grade school and middle school, along with some basic learning skills. I don't know if that same atmosphere is available in the average school today. Lots of differences in schools today from 40 years ago ... not all bad, not all good.

Playboypenguin, are you a Psychologist?

Doug.38PR said (partially):
I don't see how anyone can believe we came from apes and the world and all it's life came from some explosion. That sounds more superstitious and ignorant to me. And they (who believe all came from chaos) call religious people ignorant and superstitous for believing in created order?
It is unfair of staff to participate in a debate and then slam the door and lock it. This is not a lock on this thread ... yet. If it goes into a religious debate, it probably will.

Doug.38PR, you have a PM.
 
Sorry, I don't want this to turn into a religious debate. I just threw that in for some of those who seem to delight in making rude (or borderline hateful) comments towards those of us who do value such things.

Lets keep this on homeschooling and education


Even though I grew up with a public school education, I have developed a somewhat jaded view of today's "government school system". Homeschooling, properly done has to be a tremendous burden to the parents. It seems to me that Mom and Dad can just forget about hobbies and extra curricular activities. The social interaction with others my own age group is undoubtedly one of one of my biggest benefits up through grade school and middle school, along with some basic learning skills. I don't know if that same atmosphere is available in the average school today. Lots of differences in schools today from 40 years ago ... not all bad, not all good.

I grew up in a public school too. As were my parents in the 1940s and 50s Yet, I was raised with traditional values and my parents questioned (once we got past elementary school and into the 1990s) MUCH of what went on in jr. high and high school and found it repulsive. I have, as you noticed, have developed a great disdain for public schools. I have a lot of friends and aquaintences who are public school teachers. I am AMAZED with what goes on today from what it was 20 years ago. Public school is indeed not what it was 40 years ago. Notice also, local communities back then had more say about what went on in schools even though they were public
 
Doug.38PR

What you are basically saying is you want kids to hear what you believe whether it stands up to scientific scrutiny or not.

You want them to have your values wether those values are positive or not.

As far as you not wanting to turn it into a religous debate, it seems like every statement you made was based solely on religion. My statements were from a professional standpoint and I based them on experience and reason. I made no value judgements as to why this children seemed to have problems. I just stated that they did. this is fact. the rate of homeschooled children needing additional aid both in the educational aspect of schooling and in dealing with being able to get along with other children, not violating boundries between child and teacher are all just fact.

Bud,

As far as the teacher/student boundries, homeschooled children usually were taught by loved ones. The relationship extended beyond teacher/student. Once they are faced with the traditional teacher/student boundries they seem stiffling to them. They feel they have done something wrong because the teacher does not give them the praise and love they earned in previous experience. They either start to feel shut out and close themselves off or they act out for attention.

They also have a hard time staking out their place in the natural pecking order. They have been sheltered to a degree from bullies and been prevented from dominating weaker children due to closer supervision that homeschooling allows. Therefore they tend to lack that, as I call it, "know when to hold them and know when to fold them" sense.

I am not trying to say any one thing is good or bad. I am just stating the issues that arise from home schooling.
 
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