The biggest illegality against US citizens

My point is that I calculated by the taxes I pay in MI that I pay 50% of my income to the state. What goods or services do I receive for my money(35,000) a year, guesstimated. Now that we have a tangled system of the FEDS giving the states back money to do highway and other work. All of a sudden being a truck driver(me) and a corrections officer(wife) are wealthy individuals. They take all my money so I can't save enough for a down payment for a house. I am pushed into a government based lender FHA. Then I need to have kids to justify needing more of my own money. The government tells me that I can't here certain words on TV or see certain bodyparts. It tells me when I can buy alcohol on certain days, when I have to stop drinking in a bar at night. I can't deduct work materials because I make too much money. Your bartering thing was interesting, I have seen people offer in classifieds things for sale that also state things they will trade for. I really don't like to feed clothe and pay the rent for people who have kids and no job. That is a charity. I guess the government never thought I might get hurt or need my own money. They have a program that if I just kept my money I wouldn't need it.

The Federal government is out of control. The state governments are telling us how to raise our children, or at least telling people how to raise them. I have seen some of these cases of child abuse and laugh. I had a friend whose dad was a detroit police officer who would punch him for being home late for dinner. I was spanked as a kid. The teachers at school had big wooden paddles. Leave a kid in a car for 5 minutes and you are a child abuser.

The best government is the smallest government, the feds can't even protect us from people coming to do us harm. This is one of their constitutional duties.

Cut taxes, cut the hand outs, stop telling people how to raise their kids and making me pay for it. Keep the military strong, and up to date, almost all the new technology since the 50's is fuel by research for the military. Like the arpa net, the beginning of the internet.
 
Handy
And the idea that we pay similar taxes to socialist Europe is breathtaking. Wealthy Europeans often become US citizens for the lower tax rate. Europeans pay income tax, property tax, and up to 50% sales tax on automobiles.
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It isn't far off. In the U.K. for example, you have a 10% tax on new private vehicles, income tax comparable to ours, local tax (which has shifted in name from "pole tax" to "community charge" etc). Then there is the 14% VAT ("value added tax") on most goods and services, in addition to vehicle taxes for road use which is comparable with some states here. Fuel tax of 70+% (on an average price of $6 per gallon) is much higher at the moment.

In all though, when you add all the taxes, "fees", licensing (and yearly renewals) we are not that far off at all.
 
I thought I'd estimate my own taxes, here in Nevada:

Fed income: $30,000 (based on $100,000 and 30% rate)
Sales tax: $2100 (based on 7% of $30,000 worth of retail purchases, no state income tax in NV)
Property tax: $2000 (for a $150,000 house)
Auto registration: $70 for two cars

Which totals $34,170, or a bit over 34% of a $100,000 joint income. That includes house, cars, retail and income (and I was rounding up and not using any deductions). What taxes or fees am I missing? Is Dan really paying 25% more than me?
 
A straight 30% of $100,000 significantly overestimates the actual taxes. You're taxed at the lower brackets on the first portions of your taxable income, so you'd actually pay $7,820 plus 25% of the amount over $56,800, which comes to $18,620, not $30,000. See http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf for details.

And if you're actually paying even that much on a $100k/year salary, you need a better accountant.

My overall federal percentage last year was something like 17.5%. I still feel fine criticizing Teresa Heinz-Kerry about her 12% overall rate on her multi-million dollar income because I'm not out there in the national media calling for higher taxes on people like me, or richer than me. I sure wish I could afford her accountants, though.

My wife and I estimated that we spent between $10,000 and $15,000 on sales and income taxes alone in 2002 in California, hence our move to New Hampshire where we have neither.
 
My wife and I estimated that we spent between $10,000 and $15,000 on sales and income taxes alone in 2002
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Did that figure include all the taxes you pay on every gallon of gas? Wait, I don't just mean the direct taxes on the gallon, I mean the taxes paid by Exxon (or whoever) who brought the crude from <wherever> and the taxes paid by the refiner (all his taxes - you paid those, too) and the taxes paid by the trucking company that brought the fuel to the station and the taxes paid by the local gas station owner (property taxes, income taxes, all of it)?

Did that include the taxes paid by the grocery store where you bought your food? The wholesalers (middlemen) who shipped the goods that stock the shelves? The big food companies that produce the caned goods and the boxed goods? Oh, don't forget the can and box makers! And the trucking companies - whoops - they bought fuel. Now we're back to Exxon and the refineries and....

All of those taxes went into the price you paid at the pump or the grocery store or the mall. All those taxes came out of YOUR pocket. Can you pass any of those on to your customers?

Nope.


Our actual tax rate is far higher than any simple calculation of income and sales taxes will show.

About the only way to get the real number is to look at what all of the various levels of gummit (local, state, fed) are SPENDING (combined) and divide that by the annual income of wage earners in the country.

THAT is our actual tax rate.
 
Mvpel,

Like I said, I was overestimating. My point was that even rounding up I couldn't top 35%, so how is someone in Michigan paying 60%?
 
They may be adding up all the built-in taxes you pay as part of the price of the goods you buy. Also, don't forget the FICA tax which is 6.2% from you and 6.2% from your employer, and Medicare which is 1.45% of your pay and 1.45% from your employer, straight off the top.

Plus you're not just paying your own income taxes, you're paying some part of the income taxes of all the employees of every company that worked to bring you any product you bought. If you weren't, the companies wouldn't be able to make a profit and wouldn't bring you the product.

So for a loaf of bread, there's incremental costs imposed by income, FICA, and a list of other taxes that are reflected in its price.

The sales tax on the combine that the farmer used to harvest the wheat, the sales and excise taxes on the fuel used to power the combine and the truck used to haul the grain to the elevator, the income and FICA taxes on the railroad employees who hauled it from the elevator to the bakery, on the bakery employees, on the employees of the plastic baggie manufacturer and their shippers and suppliers, on the bread delivery company drivers and their fuel sales and excise taxes, on the grocery store employees, and finally the sales tax (in some states) on the retail price of the loaf of bread itself.

It'd be quite interesting to pick a product and calculate precisely what portion of its incremental cost is taxes. I expect it'd be quite a lot of work, and I expect that you'd find a shockingly high number when all was said and done.
 
Even WITH all those hidden taxes, I'm not living on only 40% of my pay. Take all the taxes you can see, then take as much as 50% of all retail costs as hidden tax and it still won't equal that high a number.
 
Handy what do you doubt about my calc. Are you an accountant? Did you pull my return. You said you own a house right? Well I did not own a house that means I don't get to itemise my deductions. Does that compute. I do not get anything but the standard deduction. I pay property taxes with the rent was $680 on a 1 bedroom apartment but I can't take that credit the homestead propert tax, because I make too much. My mother is a CPA and if you can't itemize you don't need an accountant. I do not need an account even with itemising. That $35000 was all taxes. Oh yes this was for the year of 1996, before the tax breaks. actually get out your return. Add what you paid to medicare and fica now double that becasue your employer pays that, which should be yours You only buy $30000 worth of goods. So you put all sorts of money in the bank. The gas tax in MI at that time was around $.35 a gallon. I know I delivered it to gas stations. This is fed and state. Do tell me what the state income tax is here handy. Get the money you made and figure your fed taxes using an EZ form from 96 now add 7,000 dollars for fica & medicare (7%) what do you get. With you being single of course and your standard deductions are only 6960 you pay tax on 93000. I only can look up 2003 tax rates but they were higher in 96, you pay uncle same 20,973. Plus 7000 for fica that's $27973 I would add on an extra 7000 that your employer pays to make it $34973 now start adding in sales tax. You only spent $30,000. Add gas taxes. Taxes on booze or smkes if you have those vices. You are a hop skip and a jump from 40% right now. Remeber this is also 2003 tax rates the top rate was 39 not 34 the other rates went down about 2 points. $2000 for property taxes is a steal. I guess rich single people should be taxed on a higher basis. You are just lucky you have all the casino money. Check your water gas electric and phone too. I did this after I broke my back and was very bored and mad that if I just had some of the money they took from me the year before I would be alright.
 
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We have other taxes that are carried by industry - but we pay for - in the form of regulation, and over-regulation. Significant taxes not only on gasoline, but alcohol and cigarettes etc. Then there is the nickel & diming added on to things like telephone bills. There is the hunting license, the fishing license, driver's license renewal, concealed carry permit renewal etc. Then there are the corporate-government taxes in the form of "mandatory insurance".
 
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