Brian Williams
New member
I like my Marlin 1894C in 357, short handy and powerful enough for up to 150 yds. Using 180 gr XTP JSP and a bunch of 2400 makes for a great round.
The best caliber for thicket hunting
- Thread starter Cwalk
- Start date
Quickdraw Limpsalot
New member
Can't believe no one's mentioned the .35 Remington. That (in a 336) was my first deer rifle and still my favorite. GREAT cartridge for the woods here in Kentucky.
Springer 45 is right about "brush busting".
Try this test: find a young sapling, with a main trunk no bigger than 3" in diameter. Back away from it, get a good running start, and run right through it in a straight line and not slowing down. If you can't accomplish that, how do you expect a bullet that weighs thousands of times less to do it?
Try this test: find a young sapling, with a main trunk no bigger than 3" in diameter. Back away from it, get a good running start, and run right through it in a straight line and not slowing down. If you can't accomplish that, how do you expect a bullet that weighs thousands of times less to do it?
The theory used to be that a brush gun was used in areas where the bullet might hit a couple of small twigs along the way. It wasn't for busting through lumber. No one should be trying to shoot through anything resembling quantities of brush, limbs or saplings.
Used to be that the common consensus was that a big heavy slow moving bullet would be deflected less by two or three small twigs than a light fast moving bullet. That was a very common belief, based upon the anectodal evidence of experienced brush hunters.
It must be ingrained in me because I just have to still believe that a 45acp (for instance) would be deflected less than a .17 mach 2 - when shot through a few small twigs. No, I am not advocating either caliber for deer hunting, just using two extremes to make a point.
But if you want to try and shoot through even those wooden dowels mentioned earlier in that test, you shouldn't be trying to hit anything cause you wont, unless you have a 105mm howitzer.
Used to be that the common consensus was that a big heavy slow moving bullet would be deflected less by two or three small twigs than a light fast moving bullet. That was a very common belief, based upon the anectodal evidence of experienced brush hunters.
It must be ingrained in me because I just have to still believe that a 45acp (for instance) would be deflected less than a .17 mach 2 - when shot through a few small twigs. No, I am not advocating either caliber for deer hunting, just using two extremes to make a point.
But if you want to try and shoot through even those wooden dowels mentioned earlier in that test, you shouldn't be trying to hit anything cause you wont, unless you have a 105mm howitzer.
Capt. Charlie
Moderator Emeritus
Physics. A body in motion tends to stay in motion. A body in motion traveling in a certain direction tends to stay in that direction. The more mass a body has, the more difficult it is to divert. Ask the guys in Viet Nam who would've killed to trade their M-16's for a good, old fashioned .45 ACP Thompson SMG. The .223 deflects. Period. A Thompson can bulldoze through a cinder block wall, or a heavy wall of brush with ease.
It's a good question. The answer is that you are probably going to hit some small twigs with anything you shoot in brush, so you are assuming that you will hit some and you want to use a bullet that will get the job done. You are avoiding shooting through saplings and limbs, but you can't effectively avoid everything and the actual difference in diameter between the bullets is too small to be able to use to shoot past twigs.
22-rimfire
New member
I had not posted to this thread, so I thought I would throw in my 2 cents. I know that we all think we are great marksman with our 243's or other sub-30 caliber rifles when it comes to deer hunting in the woods. I personally use a .270 Remington Model 700 and have always been very satisfied with the flexibility of the caliber. First "deer rifle" was a 243 and I stopped using it due to the brush gun argument... shot through a small maple tree and hit the deer. Didn't even see the tree through the scope as I was concentrating on the deer shot. Lost that deer. Best I can figure is that the 243 round just about exploded when it hit the deer---lots of blood, but probably a shallow wound. Tracked it a long long way (hours) in leaves (no snow) before it stopped bleeding.
If the caliber choice is strictly for hunting in brush at limited range... I would go with a slow moving caliber like the venerable 30-30 or similar. The 30-06 and 308 are just fine with proper bullet choice. I'm not rich, so I choose a rifle caliber for deer hunting that is flexible and allows me to take the 200 yard shot if offered and also the 50 yard or even 15 yard shot. I once shot a running buck at less than 10 yards "from the hip " (ie pointing) with the 270. Amazed myself... dropped like a rock. Before you all think taking a shot like that was foolish.... I used to practice all the time with 22 rifles on small targets from the hip and developed what I believed was some proficiency. Routinely made running shots on rabbits from on the jump such that most would only think would be a shotgun shot. Fun.
Cwalk: You started this thread. Please don't talk about how much destruction you caused to the animal when hunting. It is just not cool or at least written in a public forum as a positive thing. Hitting a soft skinned animal with a high powered rifle can be an unpleasant sight. It is one of the main reasons that I do not like such calibers as 375 H&H, 300 Weatherby or similar for deer sized game. The destruction to the animal is just not necessary and choosing a caliber like that for deer suggests something about a person's psychic. You have not chosen one of these "magnum" rifle calibers for deer, but others do commonly. I hope you enjoy your hunting experiences and pass it on to your friends and descendants as it is fundamentally important (I think) to the continued availabilty of hunting in the US.
If the caliber choice is strictly for hunting in brush at limited range... I would go with a slow moving caliber like the venerable 30-30 or similar. The 30-06 and 308 are just fine with proper bullet choice. I'm not rich, so I choose a rifle caliber for deer hunting that is flexible and allows me to take the 200 yard shot if offered and also the 50 yard or even 15 yard shot. I once shot a running buck at less than 10 yards "from the hip " (ie pointing) with the 270. Amazed myself... dropped like a rock. Before you all think taking a shot like that was foolish.... I used to practice all the time with 22 rifles on small targets from the hip and developed what I believed was some proficiency. Routinely made running shots on rabbits from on the jump such that most would only think would be a shotgun shot. Fun.
Cwalk: You started this thread. Please don't talk about how much destruction you caused to the animal when hunting. It is just not cool or at least written in a public forum as a positive thing. Hitting a soft skinned animal with a high powered rifle can be an unpleasant sight. It is one of the main reasons that I do not like such calibers as 375 H&H, 300 Weatherby or similar for deer sized game. The destruction to the animal is just not necessary and choosing a caliber like that for deer suggests something about a person's psychic. You have not chosen one of these "magnum" rifle calibers for deer, but others do commonly. I hope you enjoy your hunting experiences and pass it on to your friends and descendants as it is fundamentally important (I think) to the continued availabilty of hunting in the US.
MassHunter2190
New member
Dude, at least get your story straight.
EDITED to add:
Ok...did this happen in '03 or '04?
EDITED to add:
Why didn't you just use this gun?
22-rimfire
New member
I have no idea if Cwalk is a troll. Frankly, my impression is he is a kid who doesn't know much about hunting. Some good information was presented in this and the other "locked" thread. Just blow it off. If he is not a troll, I don't think that a lot of us have made him feel very welcome here. You have to learn sometime and the time is now. The firing line is one place to learn some things if you are interested in guns and using guns for legal purposes.
Mannlicher
New member
A 'brush gun' is NOT about any ability to plough through twigs and trunks. The term has always meant a short barreled rifle that was handy, quick to shoulder, usually had open sights, and was usually a lever action.
I hunt in very heavy cover; swamps, and along the feeder/ drainage creeks. The woods like this in North Central Florida, are very dense. The pines, hardwood hammocks, palmettos and thickets can be almost impossible to push through. Most of the time, a l-o-n-g shot would be about 50 yards.
The rifle that works best for me here, is a Marlin 1894S in .44 Mag
I hunt in very heavy cover; swamps, and along the feeder/ drainage creeks. The woods like this in North Central Florida, are very dense. The pines, hardwood hammocks, palmettos and thickets can be almost impossible to push through. Most of the time, a l-o-n-g shot would be about 50 yards.
The rifle that works best for me here, is a Marlin 1894S in .44 Mag
Boarhunter
New member
Under the circumstances you describe, "brush-busting" is not the quality you should be looking for (as no cartridge truly busts through brush without deflection); what you are looking for is a firearm that is handy, quick to mount, and capable of reasonably fast accurate fire.... which accounts for the popularity of the lever-action carbine in a variety of calibers. They work, and have worked for generations, for a reason.
But do not overlook another "category" of firearm that meets the qualities that would work well under the hunting conditions you describe...surplus military weapons like AKs and SKSs are perfect in the woods. And they are so reasonably priced that you do not have to worry so much when the weather and the terrain get seriously rough (my Brownings typically stay in the safe, but the AKs and SKSs go in the woods, regardless the weather).
And for a particularly convenient firearm to use for short-range deer hunting in the rough stuff, look at carrying a handgun as your primary weapon. With a little practice, you may find (as I have) that you can be just as effective with a handgun on short quick woods shots. Although I have used a numer of handguns for this purpose, seems I always come back to a Smith .44 mag of one type or another or to a Magnum Research 45/70 (which I consider to be as fine a production hunting handgun as I can afford).
Something to think about.
Boarhunter
But do not overlook another "category" of firearm that meets the qualities that would work well under the hunting conditions you describe...surplus military weapons like AKs and SKSs are perfect in the woods. And they are so reasonably priced that you do not have to worry so much when the weather and the terrain get seriously rough (my Brownings typically stay in the safe, but the AKs and SKSs go in the woods, regardless the weather).
And for a particularly convenient firearm to use for short-range deer hunting in the rough stuff, look at carrying a handgun as your primary weapon. With a little practice, you may find (as I have) that you can be just as effective with a handgun on short quick woods shots. Although I have used a numer of handguns for this purpose, seems I always come back to a Smith .44 mag of one type or another or to a Magnum Research 45/70 (which I consider to be as fine a production hunting handgun as I can afford).
Something to think about.
Boarhunter