The best are always ignored. Ohh why, why?

G

goranco

Inactive
First of all I don't want to be understanted wrong, I am big fun of all modern guns (Glock, Heckler ....). But I have one public question for all people here. What do you think about Steyr GB, Crvena Zastava CZ-99. The guns that should be at the top of the gun world. But both of them are forgoten, one (GB) because is not more in production, another one because came from country that is in political and war problems. But you must admit that design and entire functionality of both guns are amazing. All the features of these guns are simply outstanding and worth our atention. I hope that this message will give reason for different aproach in thinking about guns of all kinds and manufacturers.

Thank you for your time and stay safe with keeping your guns in holsters.
 
The Steyr is, indeed, a fine weapon, and if I could find one for a reasonable price, I'd certainly give it a second look. But I like to handle and shoot guns (or rental models) before I buy, and with a Steyr that's not usually possible. I've bought a couple of guns based on reputation alone, and found later that they really didn't work for ME. (This was the case with my SIG P-239, which was a fine gun but didn't really fit my hand.) I don't do that anymore.

The CZ-99 elicits a different. As best I can tell, its either 1)a knock off of a SIG (with some extra features added, like ambi controls) or 2) a clone of the Czech CZ-75(a totally different "CZ")made to look more like a SIG.

Different experts, including those who have examined and detail-stripped it, don't seem to agree on its pedigree.

Fit and finish on the CZ-99 isn't as good as the guns upon which it is arguably based, and service may be a problem. Whether its based on a SIG or a CZ, its a good design. <grin>.

The SIGS and the Czech versions do it all better than the CZ-99.

[This message has been edited by Walt Sherrill (edited April 13, 2000).]
 
I know, I know, everyone here hates shooting rags...... I only look at them occasionally, honest!!

Anyway, the Jan 2000 issue of Shooting times pg 51. The Most Underrated Auto Pistol:
The CZ75. This is the Czech company (Ceska Zbrojovka) to which Walt was referring.
 
Just like the Tucker was crushed so too are hundreds of designs. I don't know if the pistols you mentioned are the best. Best is a elative term. Best for what and for whom? If you like them that's all that should matter.

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So many pistols, so little money.
 
I have a Steyr GB and it won't be for sale while I am alive. The only reason the GB was stopped was that Glock beat them out for the Austrian military contract. Without a contract sales were not high enough. A fine pistol and very accurate. I shot second in my class and 25th overall in the Oklahoma state IPSC championships in 1987 shooting that minor 9 against race guns. I love that gun. There were a bunch sold at a Tulsa gun show back in 1985 to about every member of the Tulsa PD SWAT team and individual officers. I saw a dealer move 25 guns to police in one day.

The CZ-99 was a Yugoslovian gun and we all know what happened to Yugoslovia, it's gone. The machinery was sold and I believe that it is in South Africa. It may have made a stop in Israel or Israel produced the Golan out of some CZ-99 parts. The SA gun is called the TZ-99. It is not that great a gun, not at all like the Steyr GB.
 
The CZ-75 is a good design, but a little 'overhyped' for two reasons:

1) It could be carried cocked & locked, which earned the automatic stamp of approval by Col. Cooper, hence the loyalty of a large chunk of the handgunning public.
2) It was 'way scarce, and expensive, coming as it did from a country that wasn't necessarily 'behind' the iron curtain, but at least balanced on it. Therefore it took bucks and perseverence to obtain one. Hence anyone who did was a 'serious' handgunner.

Now that the Italians are churning out copies a-go-go and the economy of what's left of Yugoslavia has tanked, making the real deal easy to get and affordable, the emperor stands, not naked, but definitely wearing a plainer outfit than before...

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Tamara's House o' Weapons: If we can't kill it, it's immortal.
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!
 
With regard to the CZ-75(b)...

I've been shooting one for several months now, and won a recent local IDPA match with it -- by a substantial margin over the next closest shooter. Some were competing with $2000 Wilsons. I paid slightly less than $300 for mine (it was a lucky buy).

I have a number of quality 9mms, including a SIG P-210, a very accurate S&W 669, and a Glock 17, and I can shoot the CZ-75 more accurately in competition than any of them. (Note: the P-210 is really more accurate, but its harder to handle when doing mag exchanges.)

I think the CZ-75B is one of the most underrated guns on the market today.

While it will allow you to carry cocked and locked, I don't -- the DA to SA transition is so good, cocked and locked isn't worth the extra trouble.


[This message has been edited by Walt Sherrill (edited April 14, 2000).]
 
I made the mistake earlier of confusing a CZ-99 with a CZ-75. The CZ-99 is a rough looking and feeling copy of a SIG. The CZ-75 finds its roots in the Browning Highpower and for that reason is just kick as*! The CZ-75 is vastley superior to any of the firearms mentioned thus far (except sig210 is more accurate but the 75 is a better combat pistol) in this thread. Steyr should stick to rifles. -ddt
 
Tamara,

The CZ75 is Czech designed and produced, not Yugoslavian. Italy got into cloning the CZ75 because of the trade restrictions against East Block weapons here in the US. Europeans and Caandians had access to the original. Once the Iron Curtain came tumbling down the Czechs could sell to whomever they wanted. CZ75s are bargains, because as you say in relation to Yugoslavia, the economies need inflows of cash. That's chanign now and the price of CZs is steadily climbing.

I don't consider the CZ75 overrated. Anyone that has ever fired an original CZ75, round trigger guard, spur hammer, can attest to the hand fitting and near target gun accuracy of those pistols.

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So many pistols, so little money.
 
I really liked the design elements of the name-ripoff CZ99. Walther P88 grip and ambi lever doing duty as slide release/decocker. Basically two operating controls besides the trigger--that combo lever and the mag release, which was truly ambi from the get-go...NOT just reversible, but ambi 100% of the time!

The Sig-style upper was pretty cool, too.

Can't speak to the execution, as there were none to be found when I had the cast to get one. Even dropped in on the importer's warehouse in Reno that year, and they had none and wouldn't sell retail anyway.

Now, if the CZ99 by Zastava also had a boreline as low as the Glock series, THAT might be another version of "Perfection."

BTW, the slide RELEASE should be back where your thumb can reach it without shifting your grip. Chew on that one, you 1911 junkies!

Man, am I ever living dangerously...
 
Tecolote:

I did say Yugoslavia, didn't I? Truly, I am not that dense in real life. When not surreptitiously typing posts at work, I usually attempt to pay attention to what I'm saying.
I wasn't saying the guns were bad I was just alluding to the near-mythical rep they had during the time when they were unobtainable. They are fine pistols, the CZ works have long experience with making quality handguns and the 75 is no exception. There was a time, though, when a guy could bring one to a range and people considered it such a 'professional's' gun that it was recommended (to me, eons ago) as the equal of a well tuned 1911 straight from Wilson. It ain't. It's kind of like the aura that surrounded Kimbers recently, until everyone realized they were merely well-made 1911 clones with decent quality control. I remember the guys who bought them (for vastly inflated prices) soon after they came out talking about their Kimber like it was some kind of exotic death ray. Hype affects the gun industry like any other. I sure would hate to have paid double the retail price to own a Miata in the first months after it came out, before everyone realized its just a car...

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Tamara's House o' Weapons: If we can't kill it, it's immortal.
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!
 
The CZ-99 is Sig Sauer design (i will send you a photo, in next few days) and believe me the funcionality is at highest level. About the finish, you'll see at the photo that will come. The tools are not sold to some African "banana" republic, they are still in Zastava plant, the factory that exist more than 145 years can't be ruined with some barbarian act of NATO bombarding. But, opposite they plan to release the new model CZ-999 improved version of CZ-99, with sound warning when you have left 3 more rounds in magazine, thiner profile and etc. I just want toinsure that this one of the finest guns in the world, but the war stopped him to came to the place that he deserve, the top one.

Aware from unjustified propaganda.
 
I have a friend with a styr gb... cool to have 19 rounds in an all steel gun.. BUT the thing LOCKS UP when the gas ports get dirty.. and there is damn near no way to get it unlocked until it cools down. Speer "lawman" ammunition seemed to be the worst culprit of this.. as was much "import ammo" its cool.. but I think its too finicky for a carry gun.

(inthe shoulda coulda woulda line of thinking I passed up an HK VP70 for $325 a few years back with 2 factory hi-caps stupid stupid stupid.. now gun parts corp. has vp 70 mags for $70 each)

I'd trust a Czech CZ over many inexpensive guns made in the united states.. and you will find me VERY fond of my FEG hi-power clone.

Dr.Rob
 
As you know, the Hi-Power is no longer in production and the 9mm is not generally available here in the suburbs of Chicago, so I checked out the CZ and was impressed. Fortunately I found a dealer that had a n.i.b. Hi-Power Practical 9mm and purchased it rather than the CZ altho I had to pony up an extra $250. Just had to have the Hi-Power!
 
The real sleeper no one has mentioned is the Makarov. Good gosh, they're $175.00 new and they just keep on shooting and shooting and shooting. I know of a gent who defected from a former soviet republic. He wons a gun store (Big Bear Arms)and was the importer of origin for the Russian Makarovs before they quit coming into the country at a break-neck pace. He has fired 5,800 rounds through one of the Ruskie Makarovs with no malfunctions. I would trust my life to one in the future and have done so in the past. The bores on most are chrome lined and the trigger returns very quickly to cock the gun after each shot is made. Accuracy is nothing to complain about either in most cases. With regards to the ammo, if the marxists stop the import of it, it is available in the U.S. or you can retrofit it with a .380 ACP barrel from Federal Arms. Heck, when he Russians anc Chinese take over here, you'll be well-supplied with spare parts and ammo. That is unless Russia completes the changeover to 9mm before the Democrats give our nation to their communist brothers!

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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
 
Will Beararms,

Both the democrats and the republicans are giving us the nasty appendage. Remember, BUSH gave us the "assault" weapons ban. Without that foot hold, they never would be doing what the are doing today. They both suck! -ddt
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ddt4free:
Will Beararms,

Both the democrats and the republicans are giving us the nasty appendage. Remember, BUSH gave us the "assault" weapons ban. Without that foot hold, they never would be doing what the are doing today. They both suck! -ddt[/quote]

ddt:

I hate to admit it but you re exactly right. Look at how Hastert is behaving right now with this compromise crap. The republicans are acting like whipped puppies-----afraid to even blink much less stand up and be heard. BTW, who is is the republican front runner right now?


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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
 
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