The best advice we can give to new gun owners

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For the person who considers the legal ramifications of self-defense, one can have appropriate mindset but be aware that if your 'good' shoot is seen as not so good (or ambiguous - which is why you are in court) - your utterances can sway a jury. It can also impact the penalty given to your attacker.

BTW, where do you teach Gaxicus? Just curious.
 
Weighing in..

Advice to new gun owners: Keep your finger out of the trigger guard, and don't buy a weapon that requires a trigger pull to field strip.

And now, because I can't resist this juicy debate:
I think, should you need to draw your weapon, that you're trying to stop the situation. If the appearance of your weapon ends the conflict, then you're done.

In a situation where there are three attackers: if shooting one makes the other two turn tail and run, you're good. The attack has been stopped. If you miss your shot, and all three turn tail and run, you're good. The attack has been stopped. I won't tell Gaxicus or anybody else what they should want, but that's what I want. I only want to stop the attack and preserve my safety.

Practicing shooting to stop means that you interrupt a bad guy's CNS or circulatory system (if you shoot.) But the goal isn't to kill; at least not for me. If the bad guy grabs the bullet out of the air with tongs and says "You know, I do believe that I don't wish to continue" then that's good--no need to be a predator killer.
 
The problem is that they are also not at all accurate for self defense purposes. We don't attack, we defend ourselves. We don't try to kill anyone, we try to get them to stop creating a problem for us. We are not predators preying on others, we are simply avoiding being prey ourselves. My $.02.
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I think you are missing the point, its probably my fault, but ( thanks to all of the discussion) I am getting a little better at explaining what i mean by all this.

When you punch, kick, scratch, etc., you are attacking, in self defense or not, all of the above will be more effective and forcefull if the person doing it is mentally prepared to attack. They need to be more than OK with it, they need to be resolved to it. They are already likely to be surprised and physically outmatched, why stack the odds even farther in the predators favor by adding hesitation and lack of force to the defender.

Killing is very likely to be the result if a defender rolls 4 rounds into an attackers chest. I believe that should be discussed in naked terms to allow the defender to be OK, and then resolved to it. Its that, or the gun ends up in the criminals hands in my view. They are much more likely to hesitate and miss without this mental resolution. Not something I can sleep well with.

A predator is what they are. They are not hungry homeless people who, through no fault of their own, are poor. They are predators. Chances are better you are the 5th or 6th person he has done this to and he is part of the drug problem or is a pervert. They are attacking you, you don't have time to sort out why, they are attacking you, therefore they are a predator.

Simple, pre-thought-out concepts that will increase effectiveness, reduce hesitation, and decrease the odds that the predator will end up with the defenders weapon.
 
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Legal.

For the person who considers the legal ramifications of self-defense, one can have appropriate mindset but be aware that if your 'good' shoot is seen as not so good (or ambiguous - which is why you are in court) - your utterances can sway a jury. It can also impact the penalty given to your attacker.

BTW, where do you teach Gaxicus? Just curious.
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The discussion is what I am here for, not to solicit any business, favors, or otherwise. For the very reasons you stated above, I am not going to disclose personal information. I'm not wussing out, or meaning to snub anyone, I think everything you said above has merit and I take it seriously. I would rather speak my mind and remain anonymous than water everything down and make the discussion PC or bland.

The following is not really a reason but an observation:

When people talk about their personal credentials it often turns into a (please pardon the term) "penis waving contest" and everything goes down hill quick from there. Any statements I make here should stand on their own. Good or bad.

If someone wants me to contact them in the real world, they should leave private message or a link to their real world address as you and many of you have in your signature. I may have, or choose to sign in with, a "real world" account but I am not sure what the point would be in going "real world" with this account.

Again, not a snub or wussing out, just practical and real reasons.

A big thank you to everyone that took/takes the time to contribute to the thread and the forum in general.
 
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I heard it but I dont agree. I dont agree with limiting the second amendment to sporting rifles, shotguns, or other more politically correct erosions. Why would so many here call to do the same to our first amendment?
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Wait a minute...A couple of important points. The 1st Amendment has absolutely no bearing on personal exchanges, particularly on the internet. Second, nobody has said you couldn't say what you want, they have siad that they disagree with what you are saying and they have said why. Don't they get the same free speech consideration you are asking for? Lots of folks suggesting the way you are phrasing things is counterproductive and in some cases incorrect is not a 1st Amendment issue at all.
 
When you punch, kick, scratch, etc., you are attacking, in self defense or not, all of the above will be more effective and forcefull if the person doing it is mentally prepared to attack.
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AFAIK, there is nothing to support that idea. In fact, given that self-preservation is one of the strongest drives out there, it seems doubtful that they will defend better or stronger by trying to fool themselves that they are attacking rather than defending.
Killing is very likely to be the result if a defender rolls 4 rounds into an attackers chest.
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So? Thta is not why you are shooting him. You are shooting him to make him stop bothering you. If he dies, he dies, but that is of no concern to why you act.
They are much more likely to hesitate and miss without this mental resolution.
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Again, I don't think there is anything that would bear that out, and a lot suggests otherwise.
 
Every owner of a gun needs to be aware of the safety rules associated with handling a firearm.

Also, I agree with others who have advised that new gun owners learn everything they can about the firearms that they own. I would specifically indicate ballistics. At least a rough idea of where the bullet is going and how it will travel is an important part of owning and using firearms. Also important is the knowledge of strengths and weaknesses, applications and capabilities of the firearms that they own.

On a different note, every new gun owner needs a good knowledge of the second amendment and what it means to own a firearm and the measures put into place to protect their right to own firearms. We're all in this together.
 
Intent, State of Mind, Guilt

AFAIK, there is nothing to support that idea. In fact, given that self-preservation is one of the strongest drives out there, it seems doubtful that they will defend better or stronger by trying to fool themselves that they are attacking rather than defending.
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There is lots of evidence to support what I am saying about pre-decision and resolve.

The US Military, Law Enforcement, Martial Artist, and even Golfers train in very specific ways to clear and reinforce the mental path to execution.

They take the entire chain of execution from thought to result and pre-make every decision along every step in the chain until the full and complete result is achieved.

An example many of us can probably relate to:

Mentally, golfers dont swing the club, they hit the ball to where they want it to stop. The final result is part of the mental decision to start the chain of events and involved in every step along the way.

Martial Artists dont just kick, punch, or throw, They defeat their opponent. The decision and resolve to defeat their opponent is present during every link in every chain of execution. Boxers and UFC fighters rely on this to maintain strategy while they are being pummeled. Intent starts with result.

The concept of result guides the building chains of execution until it reached.

Thats what I am talking about here but I am not sure you are.

I don't believe the chain of execution will be the same up to the point of opening fire for the reasons I described above but, for the sake of this discussion, lets assume everything up to the point where you open fire is the same.

You seem to focus on guilt. You refuse to say that you will kill a predator, only that you will shoot him, when you are very likely to kill him by shooting him. You only want to own the trigger, not the entire event. If you were a martial artist, you are stuck on the kick or the punch but not the fight. See what I mean yet?

This is a potential disconnect in the mental path of execution because the result is not complete enough to be able to guide the building chain of execution. Fights dont stop just because someone shoots a gun. Ask any cop who has seen it.

You only want to accept and intend up to where you point the gun, pull the trigger, and feel the recoil.

The chain of events doesn't stop there however. Blood and gore, screaming, unnatural facial and body positions, and even nothing. All of which are huge things that can stay with you for a long time. These huge things can very easily break the chain of execution.

I mentioned that some of those things can stay with you for a long time. After its over, you probably killed him. If you haven't come to terms with that before the act and made it part of the result from the beginning of your actions, guilt will likely eat you alive regardless of what you say now. "What he hell was I thinking?!?!"

As I said before, chain of execution starts with the result. If you can start with an honest and complete result, it will likely guide the chain as it builds its way unbroken to the result. A result you know you can live with.

If you want to say the result you want to start the chain with is to shoot him,its not honest or complete because the fight may continue from there, involve other people, and he will likely die.

If it makes no sense to you, I am sorry.

It might take a competitive boxing or martial arts class for a few years to understand what I mean because Im running out of ideas in explaining it. Honestly, I did my best.

Any competitive martial artists or boxers out there?
 
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My advise to people new to firearms is simple.

When it comes to the legal stuff, don't listen to me or people like me. Look it up for yourself. We might be able to point you in the right direction, but don't believe it until you see it in black and white.

When it comes to the gun stuff, shoot the gun until you are 100% comfortable and confident, both in the weapon and your abilities to use the weapon.
 
I believe in stopping the threat with any and all means at my disposal. I may end up killing them thru my self defense measures, but I am only trying to stop them, not killing them. I firmly believe in gun control, when things get out of control, I want to be the one with the gun.
 
I would suggest to them to work through possible encounters in thier mind while going about their daily activities.

If I go to "A store", what would I do if "This" happens.

This process will allow them to have something of a general game plan in place if something should happen (Hopefully speeding up their reaction time), and it will open up new avenues in their thought process and decision making.
 
First and foremost is read the owners manual and be very familiar with your firearm. Practice loading and unloading using snap caps, then go to the range and practice loading and unloading and firing with live rounds. Go with a friend and someone with some experience with firearms on your first trip to the range. I went with a US Navy veteran friend of mine.
 
I concur with everyone regarding safety, training, and responsibility...

However every new gun owner should buy a .22 gun or, better yet, a conversion kit. Then they should practice sight picture and trigger control. Repeat ad nauseum.
 
However every new gun owner should buy a .22 gun
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So if I buy a .22, and practice, practice, practice, and then the BG comes in and I'm ready to go with my .40, I should expect the same feel, same kick (or lackthereof), same accuracy?

Not to mention a lot of people say .22 is not stopping power enough...
 
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# 1. Learn the safety rules about handling firearms.

#2. Get some really good training from qualified firearms instructors.

# 3. Practice. Practice. And practice some more with your firearms of choice until you're really, really good with them.

# 4. Plan ahead of trouble. Make "what if plans" to know what to do and when to do it. Review your plans frequently and often then re-vamp the plans.

# 5. Go practice some more.
 
Practice

So if I buy a .22, and practice, practice, practice, and then the BG comes in and I'm ready to go with my .40, I should expect the same feel, same kick (or lackthereof), same accuracy?

Not to mention a lot of people say .22 is not stopping power enough...
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Good point. However:

The biggest benefit that NEW people get from the range is firearm familiarity, firearm operation, muzzle discipline, problem diagnosis, trigger control, front sight operation, and marksmanship. In that order. All of which can be gained with a .22 much more cheaply than full power loads.

Recoil comfort and control is important though. I usually recommend a 357 revolver as a first handgun, especially if they spend a lot of time outdoors. They can shoot 38 all they want but the rule I make is that they shoot at least 1 full cyl of full power loads at the end of each range session.

I dont think the .22 thing would be too different from that as long as the .22 is similar in design to the full power gun.

To spend an hour shooting a full power gun would easily cost $100. A .22 of very similar design would cost $25 to shoot (with at least 1 clip of full power rounds at the end). That means the shooter can hit the range 4 times as often for the same money and the .22 would pay for itself in just a few trips to the range.

The shooter with 4 times as much range time, even if it is mostly with the .22, is going to be a better and more confident shooter as long as they finish their session with at least 1 clip of full power rounds. There is just no substitute for trigger time.

I, like many/most of you can go through a rediculous amount of expensive ammunition in one single session at the range.

Be honest, how many times have you not hit the range because you didnt want to spend a fortune. Im not poor by any stretch but $200 is $200 any way you look at it. When training up, Ill go through enough ammo to buy a gun a week. How many of us would rather have a few more guns if all we had to do was spend more time behind the plinker?

Accuracy can be incredible.

Excellent marksmanship training tool. Lots of fun too.

Hard to go wrong with a good .22 for practice
 
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