The Armed Traveler.

S

Sum1_Special

New member
I had an old friend visit me a few days ago. He is currently hitch hiking around the country as he's been doing for years. We got into a conversation about guns, and he told me he recently came across a .25 caliber Raven and has started carrying this in his pack and on his person for peace of mind on those lonely nights, he said he bought it after a particularly bad incident on the road. He tells me as long as he does not consent to a police search or they never run into a criminal that fits his description, the gun will never be legally discovered or confiscated by police. I don't know the laws of traveling armed and i'm kind of worried about him. I was hoping you folks could give me some honest information about the laws of doing something like this. I don't want any flames about how he shouldn't be carrying a gun without a permit, as that is not going to help me(although knowing how some of you folks are, i'm expecting this). If you could get a CCP to carry in every state, i'd advise him to do that. But since you can't, I just want some honest, good information on the consequences of what he is doing. The homeless have a much bigger chance of being victimized than we do and I personally feel that if anybody should own a gun, it should be this guy.

Is there any sort of travelers exeption? What if the gun is used in a justified self defense situation? If he is a homeless traveler, does his backpack not count as his home? If you are not sure on the law, please don't make something up. I want to ease my worry, but if I can get some honest info, maybe I could convince him to carry a big stick instead.
 
I don't have to make anything up.
He is concealing the weapon on his person, without a permit. Period.
Unless he stays in Vermont, it's illegal.
Let's pass a national carry act and not worry about it!
 
Well, there is a ray of hope, I suppose.

Check out packing.org. There, you will find a wealth of information concerning the states that issue concealed weapon permits. More importantly, you will find out which states honor other states' permits. This is known as reciprocity.

It is very possible for your friend to travel extensively, and yet stay in states that honor his home state's carry permit.

Moreover, most states do have provisions for issue of carry permits to out of state individuals.

As far as your friend's current situation is concerned, I offer this advice:

1. When traveling in this manner, first and foremost obey the law. Learn the laws concerning trespass and vagrancy in the places that you go or visit.

2. Concealed means just that--concealed. Period.

3. I do not now, nor will I ever advocate the breaking of the law. But remember that you are responsible for your safety. No one else is. And, from past experience, being alone on foot near a highway and away from civilization can be VERY lonely and VERY frightening, in some cases. The nearest help might not be available for 30 minutes or more, even at top speed. And they more than likely will NOT be at your side in your time of greatest need.

So, choose your route carefully. Travel safely. And be prepared.
 
I don't think the police will need a

real reason to search him... if they so choose.

I'm not a LEO but I think by todays standards if they stop him to ask for identification then they can search him for their own protection.
 
If your friend doesn't consent to a search - as he says - then the police will bring in their dog to sniff his pack. If the dog detects anything, then they have probable cause to search him and his pack. That's when he will have problems.
 
Packing.org...

...will provide state-by-state laws. I do not know of any state that requires no permit or license at all (heavens, this is a revenue opportunity for them, LOL). There is no "traveling exception".


If he uses that gun in a justified self-defense situation, I hope he has witnesses, because the sad fact is, he's less likely to be believed than you or I. I don't think his backpack will qualify as his home, no. He is a transient, by your description, so even the local PD isn't going to recognize him as one of their own and give him the small benefit of the doubt that being a well-known local homeless person might.

A big stick (quarterstaff) is actually not a bad idea. Giving up his wandering lifestyle is a whole lot better one, though. Good luck to your friend.

Springmom
 
/\ my thoughts too. Where on earth do people still pick them up, anyway? Just seems like a risky endeavor for both sides.
 
In most states, he would have to give consent to have his bags searched, unless he had already committed a crime....say in this instance hitch-hiking. In that case, his bag is fair game. A search of his persons is also by consent only, but the officer can pat him down (known as a frisk) to check for weapons. If the cop feels a heavy gun shaped object through a pocket, then your pal is in trouble. If the cop just feels car keys, or a baggy of vegatable matter or whatever, he cant do anything. A frisk is only for the officers safety its not a search. remember that next time youre stopped. Your friend is better off carrying OC spray or a stun gun if hes going state to state. And if he does have a gun stay out of DC, NJ, MD, and all the rest of the places that hate guns but love high crime rates.
 
Just seems like a risky endeavor for both sides.
Click to expand...
In the '70s my cousin was hitchhiking in New England. When they found his body, they determined that he had been tortured for some time before being killed. I don't think they ever found his killer.
 
I really feel for your situation but I don't see a legal way to do what you're friend is doing. That being said there are alot of people that carry illegally and don't get caught. Only suggestion I can think of is if he chooses to carry that he should keep himself as neat and clean as possible and not draw attention to himself. If I had to hitchhike somewhere today I would try to start out at a truckstop. Truckers are usually very friendly and helpful. Standing on the side of the road with your thumb in the air is a good way to get hassled by the cops, especially those with the "not in my city" attitude. Alot of times cops will beat up homeless/hitchhikers, ect. and then drive them to another jurisdiction to rid their city of the "problem".
 
Let's pass a national carry act and not worry about it!
Click to expand...

Better yet, lets not pass anymore laws. Lets stick with the RIGHT (not privledge) to keep and bear arms. The fundamental right of self defense.

I wasn't aware that hitchhiking was illegal in most states. I see people trying it all the time in Texas.

Illegal or not, I agree that it is extremely foolish in this day and age for hitch hiker or driver to do it. :eek:

The only thing I have to say to this is that if he is not willing to give up this lifestyle, then carry at his own risk. He has just as much to fear from police as he does from bad guys (perhaps that a slight overstatement, the police won't necessarily kill him but they will, by the law they are sworn to uphold, have to persecute him for carrying means to defend himself.)
Having said that, his final option (and it is one VERY FEW people are aware anymore...including jurors) is jury nullification. The concept that the jury can nullify the law if it is unjust and delcare a defendant not guilty.
It is an extreme risk, but unless hitch hiking is a necessary part of his life right now, I just would keep himself and the gun at home.

BTW, +1 revjen45,
My dad has a .25 pheonix arms Raven. The last time he shot it at the range a few months ago he declared that he will never trust his life with it again....it kept jamming :eek: . Sooo....I got him a Colt Agent for a new BUG and pocket/ankle gun.

I pray the Lord protects and guides your friend. All in all, a prayer is worth more than a thousand rounds of ammunition.
 
I no longer backpack or hitchhike...

But when I did, I kept a little .38Spl in one of the side pockets. It never came out, but I liked knowing it was there. This was before any state had a legal CCW law, so yes, I was breaking the law.

Today, I carry a nice Irish Blackthorn Shillelagh. Nothing illegal about that.
 
Very interesting information, looking forward to hearing more. I know the mods will not allow anybody to give 'illegal advice' but this is very important.

First off, let me answer some questioned you guys had.

1. Hitch hiking is legal in almost every part of the USA and even the world. However, it is not legal directly on the interstate, you must go to the on ramps to thumb for a ride. Hitching hiking seems to be alive and well, I see folks all the time on the on ramps with backpacks and signs, there is even a website dedicated to it and the lifestyle... Digihitch.com

Anyway, despite the dangers, he says he loves nothing more than being on the road, he's not ready to give it up for a long time.

2. I also own a raven, and when he came over we shot about 60 rounds through his, functions fine. His only problem is the caliber, a gun's a gun though, and he feels safe with it.

I believe the law is a bit messed up in this case, a traveler or homeless man is not allowed to own a gun? Even when they especially need one? Shouldn't everybody who isn't a criminal have that right?
 
not quite

It's not that a "traveler or homeless man is not allowed to own a gun", although for him to purchase one legally he's going to need SOME sort of address for the paperwork. Rather, it's that he is going to need a license to carry that gun. Now, if you spend enough time over on www.packing.org you will notice that many states have reciprocity agreements with other states, and some states will allow you to get a nonresident permit that itself extends reciprocity to still more states. It is not possible, as far as I know, to get permitted for all 50 states, but your friend could theoretically get permits recognized in enough contiguous states that he could merrily thumb away back and forth over a good part of the country. Not all of it, but quite a bit.

The other thing that I hear people saying, and that I was trying to say, is that he is more of a target both for crime and for police checking him out, and therefore, his being homeless AND carrying a non-licensed weapon is going to create a high probability that he's going to go to jail for that at some point. You don't want that, and I agree...he should be free to do what he wants. So pass on that good advice about truckstops, looking as neat and clean and harmless as possible, and help him get permits that will legalize his carrying.

Good luck.

Springmom
 
To pay so much and wait so long for all these licenses to go through is, in my opinion, not worth it. It is not reasonable. If it were me, I would go ahead and carry illegally. I believe sometimes, when the laws are how they are, you must be disobedient to the law to protect your rights. Just because they are laws does not mean they are right. I think a lot of people feel the same. However, that doesn't mean the cop arresting him would not see it as a good bust. I have read a few discussions on this in The High Road and The Firing Line. It seems even some otherwise law abiding citizens carry illegally at times.

I don't know what to think about this anymore. On one hand, he, as a citizen of the United States of America, should be able to carry a gun like everybody else, permit or not. On the other hand, it's still against the law, if caught and arrested he is still in trouble regardless of whether it was morally right or wrong. I'd like to ask a question for the LEOs, if you ran into a homeless traveler and he didn't seem like a bad guy, you frisked him and found a gun, would you arrest him or let him off with a warning?
 
IMHO
If I were gonna travel and was concerned about personal defense. I would purchase a .38 snub nose. You can get a used one for under 300.00, or even better if ya look around a bit.
 
I was thinking... what about a concealed knife(survival knife), pepper spray, or some other non-firearm. would the penalties be the same if they were discovered? if he was caught with a gun and a knife in his pack, would they charge him with 2 misdemeanors?
 
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