The annual cheap plastic invasion has arrived!

5 .50-cal T/C Hawkens @ $50 each!! Holy SMOKES!!! :eek: What a deal! I can't find one around here in good shape for less than $300 used. Wow!

Anyway, I'm a recent returnee to the blackpowder world (though I shoot Pyrodex...). My first smokepole was a cheapie, wood-stocked sidehammer Traditions or CVA. Shot it some and then cleaned it and hung it up for a few years.

Now I'm back, with one of those plastic-stocked inlines, though I may be a bit spoiled as it is a T/C Encore Prohunter Katahdin. One great shooter! It's not exactly a Joe-sixpack gun however, retailing around these parts in the neighborhood of $700.

Of course, now I'm hooked again and really want both a nice sidehammer and a cap 'n ball revolver (looking at an 1851 Navy clone in .36 possibly). But when I hit the woods this fall, it will be with that Encore. But I also plan on using it for the whole season, not just the muzzleloader season. My centerfires have been getting cold and lonely in the safe lately! ;)
 
Now I'm back, with one of those plastic-stocked inlines, though I may be a bit spoiled as it is a T/C Encore Prohunter Katahdin
Click to expand...

Ooooh, mama, that's a nice one - if I had my druthers, that'd be high in the running of what I'd be shooting (plastic stock or no!) - I love the handiness of that li'l 20" barrel. What kind of groups do you get with it?
 
FirstFreedom,

I get about 2" at 50-yards, for most sabot/bullet combos. It seems to have a preference for Pyrodex pellets rather than 777. Haven't fired it with any loose powder yet, but I plan to shortly. Also plan on trying some 300gr saboted bullets to see if it can do a little better than 2" @ 50.

I've tried Powerbelt bullets in it as well and found them to be abysmal. If I wanted a group that big I'd use buckshot in a 12ga! :barf: Toss a saboted 240/250gr .44/45-caliber pistol bullet and it improves dramatically.

Really, I can't see any reason not to just use this rifle as-is for the entire deer rifle season up here. It really is that reliable and accurate so far! 100+ shots and counting.

Oh yeah, gratuitous photo plug for all drooling pleasure. :cool:

Katahdin001.jpg
 
P990,

Scope that thing and it will put same hole groups together at 50 yards.

I'm using 100 grains of 777 pellets with Thompson Mag (black) sabots with a 240 grain 44 mag hollow point pistol bullet from Hornady, and the lowest power 209 primer I can get.

Simmons Aetec 2.5 X10 scope. 1/2" high at 50 is dead on at 100 yards. Same hole groups at 50 and poker chip coverage at 100.

My Thompson has a 24" barrel on it though, but it is as accurate as any gun I own.

Last year I would take a poker chip to the range, with a hole drilled in the middle for a thumb tack, and walk out to the 100 yard range, pin it up and walk back, load my gun, shoot the chip, load up and go home.

Didn't hit it EVERY time, but it sure was impressive to the other guys at the range trying to hit a 12" peice of paper with theirs. Makes your head swell up considerable as you drive home.:D
 
Man, gotta love it - Like that Katahdin. Sounds like pretty good results - it's interesting to note that the powerbelts' performance varies so widely - shows once again that every little component change can make a difference in accuracy. Kinda funny since to hear some people tell it, powerbelts are the end-all, be-all, and since you'd expect slightly LESS accuracy from a saboted bullet vs a non-saboted one, all other things being equal, just due to the imparting of the rifling spin upon plastic rather than upon lead or copper. But who know, maybe powerbelts in other weights more suitable to your rifle would perform fine. Specialty since it's a shorter barrel than most MLs - maybe a lighter bullet? OK, keep us posted. I shall continue to drool. Although my Traditions shoots pretty darn good (3.5-4" groups at 100 yards) - far, far better than my previous ML, an NEF Huntsman. Certainly good enough for whitetails out to 100 or 125 yards.

WBB, now that sounds like a real shooter of an ML - congrats - that's more like what you'd *expect* from a T/C of any flavor. Hey, WHY "lowest power" primer? And which one would that be?
 
FF,
Federal 209 primers. I read an article about primers somewhere, that said if you shoot a primer that is to hot, it has a tendancy to push the bullet forward a little, before the charge of powder, has a chance to ignite.
I was using CCI primers, and my groups were around 3" at 100 yards. When I changed to Federal , the groups came down to 1 1/2" so I figured the primers made a difference.

I noticed in the latest catalogue from Cabelas, that Winchester has come out with a primer specially made for 777 powder. I ordered some to see if they will bring my groups down any tighter. I'll post the results in a week or two.
 
Success!!! I'll take a pic and post it later, but I finally got the Katahdin down to what I expected it to do at 50 yards. Three shots into just over an inch, center-to-center. Used Hornady 300gr XTP-Mags in .452" with their sabot and 105gr of loose Pyrodex RS. Ignition was via the Remington 209 Kleanbore muzzleloader primer. I'm stoked!! :cool:

The other guys at the range were impressed by the what the smokepole would do. I've decided that loading loose powder is not such a big deal, especially if I premeasure it into my Quick-Shots beforehand. I think I've found my hunting load!
 
P990,

Sounds like you got things worked out. I had the same experience with the belted bullets in my Thompson. I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with them.They were also EXTREMELY hard to push down the barrel. I have about 6 or 7 guys that all hunt ML here at work, and we all tried them, and some had FAIR accuracy with them, but NONE of them liked them when they shot animals. Every body that shot deer with them have gone back to sabots, they say they don't drop deer like they should.

I use the 240 grains because my shots are generally from 80 to 100 yards, and they seem to do better for me. The 300 grain is a bit much for me , but if your ranges are around 50 yards, they are a devistating bullet.

Good Luck this year.
 
WBB,

Funny you should mention that about the Powerbelts. Two of my coworkers are muzzleloader hunters and raved about them for ease of loading and accuracy. One shoots an old-model Katahdin and the other an Omega. One uses 777 and the other Pyrodex, both in pellet format. Neither has taken an animal with them yet.

I have switched from using 777 pellets initially because I found a nice ring of crud just above my breech plug after the first 70-80 shots. I've also noticed that Pyrodex doesn't leave a hard fouling between shots in the same location in my rifle. Plus, I think the smell is part of shooting a front-stuffer! :p Reminds me of my first experiences with muzzleloading.

And yes, my ranges will most likely be within 50 yards, possibly within 50-feet depending on where I am. I'm just hoping that XTP-Mag will open up properly!

Good luck and good shooting!
 
P990,

That ring of crud, from what I have been reading comes from your primers.
Type in, Winchester Triple 7 Primers, and read the article on them. This article kinds of confirms what I have been thinking about that crud ring, as mine does it with 777 or pyrodex either one.

The guys here all tell me that they could not get the expansion out of the power belt bullets that they wanted after hitting a deer. They are all shooting a 100 grain charge. Expansion might improve with a 150 grain load, but none of them like to shoot that heavy a load, it was just easier to go to a softer bullet.
 
The reason for the plastic stocks could also be due to the weather during the ML season. I know that in northern MI the weather is always a snow/rain mix that soon freezes. Not something I would want to take a nice wood stocked gun for, it would be ruined the first day.
 
Crud Ring

The crud ring that results from 777 has been described as "carmelized sucrose" resulting from the 777 ingredients. The Pyrodex fouling doesn't have the same composition even though it can accumulate. Some guns get more of a crud ring from the 777 pellets than the loose 777, and some guns have less of a crud ring from the new, less potent primers since the primer may contibute to creating it.
Someone said that the 209 primers specifically designed for .410 shotshells are less potent and can be substituted also.
So whether it's the high heat of the primers, the highly compacted 777 (in either "loose" or pellet form, or the heat & pressure generated by a large powder charge of 777 no matter which primer is used, the crud ring may mostly result from the ingredients in the 777 which produces the "carmelized sucrose" by product.
I haven't really noticed any crud ring when shooting loose 777 in smaller bore muzzle loaders with lower powder charges and many say they can shoot all day without swabbing. But if the 777 crud ring seems to be more stubborn to remove and a pain to deal with between shoots once it builds up, then it's probably not a bad idea to shoot with smaller powder charges of not so highly compacted 777 when target shooting, just enough to get the job done. Then load up to full strength when ready to hunt. And maybe even use an easier to load projectile like a plain lead conical for any necessary follow up shots to help make loading past the crud ring a bit easier in the field while hunting.
 
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