The 9MM VS .357 Debate..............My Opinions

S

scooter71

New member
Flame away, this is my opinion based on the facts as I know them.....

Let me settle this once and for all!

Go to Walmart, and pick a box of the most effective factory .357 Magnum 125 Gr. you can find.

Now load your 6 rounds in your revolver.

If you have a typical 4" barrel service revolver, you'll see between 1,411 and 1,423 with three popular .125 gr jhp's.

From Remington's web site, their hottest load .357 load chronographs as follows:

Remington
125 SJHP 1450 fps at the muzzle.

Now, I'm going to pick up a box of Corbon 9MM +P 115 GR

Then, I'm going to load 15 rounds in my magazine, chamber a round, and top off the magazine for a capacity of 16 rounds in my Beretta 92FS.

The Corbon, 115 grain +P, clocks right at 1375 fps from a 5” barrel (exactly like the one in my Beretta 92FS)

I’ll take the 9MM because:

PLUSES AND MINUSES

- I will lose 10 grains of bullet weight, and 75 fps.

+ The Bad Guy won’t be able to feel 75 feet per second difference or the 10 grains

- 96% one shot stops (.357) VS 91% one shot stops (9MM)

I based this percentage on data on this website:
http://www.evanmarshall.com/towert/stoppingpowerfigures.htm

Choose the caliber on the bottom, and see the number of shootings reported, and the results..

+ In the process, I’ll have a much more controllable firearm.

+ More comfortable to shoot, less felt recoil than the violent blast associated with full power .357 loads from a revolver.

+ No night-blinding fireball created by the barrel to cylinder gap.

+ Longer more efficient barrel, with no increase in overall weapon length.

+ I’ll have 10 more shots left, after the guy with the wheelgun has since run out, and has to clumsily re-load 6 more rounds.

+ 15 more rounds are just a “2” second combat reload away!

And on,………..and on…………

I’m taking the 9MM for anything but dedicated target shooting……..

Why do you think 99.9999% of Law Enforcement agencies now carry auto's?

The only exception I know of that I have contact with is the US Marshal's Service. They still issue a 3" Ruger GP-100 .357.
georgiaC.gif


GOOD PAGE HERE: http://www.evanmarshall.com/towert/



[This message has been edited by scooter71 (edited June 07, 2000).]
 
I think your reasoning is sound except for the "one shot stop thing". I think that good shot placement is the key to stopping power. Otherwise, the .25ACP WOULD just P.O. the BG.
Also, standard capacity mags are becoming scarce, and expensive. Ten rounds is the norme. The only advantage over a revolver is ease of reloads. Despite these flaws, I think you are right, though.

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BOYCOTT SMITH AND WESSON!!!
Defend the Constitution from the foreign threat!!!!
 
Ahhh. But load up that .357 with CastCore 180gr ammo with 625 ft-lbs. at 1250fps and which one will stop an alligator in your backyard trying to get into your house: 6 rounds of .357 or 15 rounds of 9mm? That's the question that I keep asking myself as I have a few 9mm's but no .357 magnum.
Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD
fud-nra.gif
 
The advantage of the .357 is the ability to drive heavier bullets at equal velocity. My favorite .357 defense load, the Winchester 145 gr. Silvertip, is listed at about 1300 fps. To get that velocity from a 9x19mm, you have to use a 115 gr. +P load. With roughly the same bullet weight (147 gr.), the 9 won't get within 200 fps of the .357. The .357 gives you the same reliable expansion as a 115 gr. +P 9mm load, with deeper penetration.
 
aren't they both just something to shoot your way to your rifle with? *grins*

i don't disagree with you as long as you can shoot the beretta as straight or straighter than you can shoot the .357...

gimme my .357 Marlin 1894CS and I've now got 10 rounds to discuss the matter further with.

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Take the long way home...
 
So we come down to the TRUE issue that is involved...

What YOU like, and what works for YOU isn't necessarily what I like or what works for ME.

You've justified why you carry what you do. That's cool, that works for you. Do you want the rest of us to run out and buy Berettas? ;)

And do you really expect to get into a firefight that requires you to have 16 rounds in your magazine? Or are you just that bad a shot? :)

Yes, I know, the standard argument goes what if what if what if...

But what if you're attacked by an entire tribe of Hottentots? :eek:

Then your 15-round magazine doesn't seem like such a great choice when you could have selected an extended 33 round magazine, or a Calico pistol with a 50 round magazine!

Or, even better, why not drop back to a smaller caliber that will give you even more shots in the magazine? I think the French developed a pistol many years ago, basically a rimless centerfire .25 with a case about 23mm in length, that would hold 40 shots in the magazine. Not bad!

This argument has always reminded me of "how many California Angels can dance on home plate," or something like that.

And I hate to tell you this, but your "longer, more efficient" barrel is the same length as the standard 4" barrel on a .357. You see, a little over 1" of that 5" barrel goes to house the cartridge. A semi-auto barrel is measured from the breech face, a revolver barrel is measured from the front of the cylinder.

So, you're wondering about me, right? (Don't worry, lots of people do!)

I've got 7 .357s. And I've got 5 9mms, including a Beretta 92 and an HK P7M13.

What am I carrying about 90 percent of the time? A Taurus TP-22.

The rest of the time I alternate between one of my .357s, or my Kahr or my H&K 9mm.

I don't carry the Beretta. Too big, too bulky.

As I said, what works for you may not work for me...

As for the rest of us, viva la difference! :D



[This message has been edited by Mike Irwin (edited June 07, 2000).]
 
I have several 9mm's to include the Beretta and I agree with you to an extent. I like the 16rd option (if you have the mags or can still afford them) if I'm going into combat.
However, I've carried the 92 and you'll fight hard to hide it.
I pack a S&W 66 and that's what's on the nightstand. I can hide it and I don't have to worry about a bad primer or a jam.
The best weapon is the one you have, and the 92 doesn't allow for easy concealed carry.
If I'm showing, I'll take the MP-5.

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He who dares wins.
NRA Life Memeber
 
Mike is right re bbl length. 686 with 2.5" incher is bout 5.25 from breech face to muzzle.

If we could pre plan our problems, could stay home that day or go properly prepared.

Hardly anybody considers shootin through a car door in a self defence situation. What about the wannabe car jacker standin outside while you at a light, behind another vehicle, strapped in etc etc. Then would be nice to be able to shoot through your own door and other stuff to dump him. Just another what if.

Sam
 
I have a beretta 92FS and a S&W 686+. i use the beretta for home defense for some of the reasons you stated and some of my own.

i can control my beretta better and like the more rounds and faster reloads.

also i can shoot pistols more accurately and quicker than i can a revolver.

you should be comparing the 9mm to the .357sig. its a tough choice but i feel well suited and armed with my beretta 92 or glock 19.

however i may in the future purchase a glock 21 in .45 for home defense. for a handgun it doesn't get much better than that. 13+1 rounds of .45 in a very controlable package. some people think the 10mm is more powerful and i don't know if thats true but it has more recoil and just like other more powerful rounds such as the .44mag. sure they may have a bit more stopping power but if i can't control them easily and if i can't get off follow up shots fast enough then i'm better suited with a less powerful gun.
 
The 9mm round killed alot of people way back in WWI and WWII way before any debates on "stopping power" were discussed. Nobody should feel "underarmed" with a 9mm especially with todays ammo...
The .357 Magnum round is very powerful and also has killed alot of bad guys...
One should not be comparing the two as they are different in their uses.( one in an auto, one in a revolver.
Your real debate is Revolver V.S. Auto...
I love them both and would not think about opening up the "can of worms" that debate would cause. ;)
You are obviosly well prepared for any eventuality should it arise...
Go forth and share your passion with others ... :)

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SHOOT,COMMUNICATE AND MOVE OUT !

[This message has been edited by GIT_SOME.45 (edited June 10, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by GIT_SOME.45 (edited June 10, 2000).]
 
FUD, if ole gator ever tries to pay you a housecall then just tickle him between the eyes to put him to sleep. Just kidding! Toss him your terrier since that is what he wants.

As to the 9mm, use a FMJ load and you won't have a problem getting through the skull. It's the itty, bitty little brain that is the problem.

I've lived in Florida all my life and gators just aren't a problem. Give them some space and don't swim around them. Don't walk near the water if any are around. Gators are stupid and usually lethargic. The exceptions are nesting season and getting one mad. Their preferred prey is around fifty pounds in size.

Russell92

The Glock 20 does have more recoil than the Glock 21. It's not a lot, but it is noticeable. It's less than a .357 mag revolver, though.
 
One may feel better with the 9mm but that does not make it more powerful than the .357 Magnum. Anyone who thinks it does needs to take physics, drink ginseng tea or maybye even look at geetting into an oxygen chamber for a while.

To each his own and to each I give my full respect but I cannot believe that anyone would even suggest that the 9mm is close to the .357 Magnum in Power we are talking 395 ft./lbs. on average when reality kicks in versus 510 ft./lbs. To do even this the 9mm has to be loaded to elevated pressures thereby increasing wear and tear on a given pistol.

With all due respect to all------WB


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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TBeck: ... I've lived in Florida all my life and gators just aren't a problem ... Their preferred prey is around fifty pounds in size ...[/quote]I don't know what part of Florida you're in but I live right along the Everglades and a little over half a year ago a gator made his/her way into my backyard and went after my little one (the munchkin weighed about 25 pounds back then). I fired all ten rounds from my Smith & Wessonn 4013TSW (which was loaded with Cor-Bon 135gr and Remington 180gr Golden Saber alternated every other round) at it. Not sure how many connected as I was shooting with one hand and I was running away with the baby in the other arm. Didn't kill it but must have caused it enough pain to back off and give me a chance to get into the house. Called the Sheriff's department and when the deputy arrived (with a shotgun), he found blood but no gator. Ever since then, I've had an obsession with alligators -- as anyone who has read enough of my posts already knows.
 
I'll be another one to ring in that 9mm or .357 suits me just fine. If you have problems stopping things with either round you should reevaluate your technique not your round.

Every true craftsman trys to use the best tool for the job but in a pinch he should be able to do most jobs with most any quality of tool, If he can't, He's just and apprentice.

It's not what you drive, but how you drive it, that most determines if you are gonna get where you are going. -ddt
 
Two hands, two sides of my body, two holsters, two 4" GP100's, two EAA 9mm's, so I can carry a GP for my right hand (recoil control) and a 9mm for my left (spray and pray)(and have matching spares).

Ain't it great being ambidextrous!

Problem solved.

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"All my ammo is factory ammo"
 
scooter; The semi-auto calibre's are simply 357 mag wanna-bee's. The 357 mag is king and remains king to this day some 65 years later. Actually, it's like comparing apples to oranges. There is no comparision. The 357 mag is more powerful, period. I had a Beretta mod 92 with 17 round mec-gars. Great house gun but it had no business in the field (woods). The 357 mag is incredibly flexible. Leave it at home for home defense or take it to the woods with Federals 180 grain hardcast loads. There's not a 9mm that can approach that in any form. Controlability? Shoot the 110 grain 357 mag. Or Proloads 357 mag tactical lites (very mild in 357 mag snubbies). These two loads are at the top end of 9mm preformance but are the most "mild" maggie loads. There's simply no comparision between the two calibre's except capacity and if that's a problem then I suggest a shooter practices more. Best Regards, J. Parker
 
FUD wrote:
quote:
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Originally posted by TBeck: ... I've lived in Florida all my life and gators just aren't a problem ... Their preferred prey is around fifty pounds in size ...
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I don't know what part of Florida you're in but I live right along the Everglades and a little over half a year ago a gator made his/her way into my backyard and went after my little one (the munchkin weighed about 25 pounds back then). I fired all ten rounds from my Smith & Wessonn 4013TSW (which was loaded with Cor-Bon 135gr and Remington 180gr Golden Saber alternated every other round) at it. Not sure how many connected as I was shooting with one hand and I was running away with the baby in the other arm. Didn't kill it but must have caused it enough pain to back off and give me a chance to get into the house. Called the Sheriff's department and when the deputy arrived (with a shotgun), he found blood but no gator. Ever since then, I've had an obsession with alligators -- as anyone who has read enough of my posts already knows.

As someone who works on the "environmental side" of a 73,000 acre military installation right here in Florida. I have one thing to say about your experience. SHOTGUN.
Pygmie Rattler's, Alligators, Coral Snakes, Black Widow's, Black Bears, etc... All live in a "lush preserve" filled with swamp, pine flatwoods, creaks, streams and plenty of open clearings and karstic terrain.
We don't have the option of firing on a critter if we "happen" upon it. Closest approximation to safety we have are gaiters and maybe a machette.
However if I was allowed to carry, and I've been in the thick of it, I'd use a shotgun.
Yes, yes, yes, we all know that you couldn't of picked up your kid and fired at the same time, but my guess is from now on you'll keep the tyke under close supervision?
I would imagine a couple of salvo's of 3" slugs into the area right behind his skull would neatly sever his spine. A bigger target than the brain, dontcha know, especially a reptillian one at that.

Jon
 
I do know a 9mm will go right thru a bull elks head with the 115 XTP hornaday every time and make a fair sized exit wound. But so will a .357, just depends on what you like. Myself I like both, they are both fairly hot rounds. The 9mm is easier to control and has more rounds, less flash and recoil but the .357 is a better hunting round.
 
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