The 45 colt: Old but still useful?

[44 AMP]

Maximum loads aren't far above the levels needed to push the bullet fully out of the barrel.

Rubbish!

Unless, of course, you consider 1,000fps to be "not far above the levels needed to push the bullet out of the barrel"

because a 250gr @ 1,000fps is what you can get out of a Colt SAA with a 5.5" or longer barrel, and almost that much from the shorter 4 5/8" tube.

Sure. its a max load, but its been the listed max load for Colt guns for longer than most (possibly all) of us have been alive.

 

[BBarn]

If you look back, you'll see I was referring to jacketed bullets in my statement. It's based on the cautions given by Speer and Alliant not to reduce the charges of their standard pressure 250+ gr. jacketed bullet 45 Colt data.

Those cautions don't apply to their lighter jacketed bullet data. And other bullet and powder makers publish jacketed bullet standard pressure starting loads well below their maximums regardless of bullet weight. So perhaps Speer/Alliant are overly cautious.

Nearly all of the latest transducer tested data shows 250 gr. jacketed bullets from standard 45 Colt loads below 900 fps. I've seen only one or two recently published 250 gr. jacketed loads a bit above 900 fps., but none near 1000 fps.

As suggested, you can get better standard pressure performance from the 45 Colt by using swaged or cast bullets.

 

[Pathfinder45]

Cast bullets are generally better for large caliber revolvers anyway. A big,flat-point 45 doesn't need to expand to do its job. Jacketed bullets are over-rated for this application.

 

[M88]

Still useful??? of all my revolvers, my 2 45 Colt SA's are just pure FUN to shoot. Simple as that. I also have a Winchester 1892 lever, and of my lever guns THAT one is my favorite to take to the range. Don't know about "useful", but I love the 45 Colt round. It's ancient, it's simple, it "works" like it should.

Had my years of loading the .45 Colt to match or even slightly exceed the .44 Magnum. Decided a long time ago to settle on 10gr Unique and a 250gr SWC. This goes just under 1100fps in my 7.5" Ruger and delivers plenty of "thwop" while not being uncomfortable to shoot.

I'm going to try this combo... thanks 44.

Ruger Vaquero, a "modern" 45 Colt SA...

Taylor & Co (Uberti) Smoke Wagon, Taylor tuned with a nice trigger job 45 Colt SA, internals more like the original Colts...

 

[44 AMP]

I'm going to try this combo... thanks 44.

10gr Unique is close to the listed max in my old manuals, so WORK UP TO IT. It should be ok in any Colt SAA class gun, but every gun is a little different, so start a bit low and work up in small steps.


Your Uberti should be considered the same as a Colt SAA for pressure levels.

Your Vaquero? Depends on which one you have. The original Vaqueros are as strong as New Model Blackhawks. Those were discontinued some years ago, and their replacement "Vaquero" is a smaller Colt SAA size gun, which should be used with Colt level loads.

If your gun says "Vaquero" on the frame, its the old one. If it says "New Vaquero" its the newer, Colt class gun.

 

[chaim]

Taurus made a 5 shot 45 colt snubby a decade or more back..... the size of a Charter Arms bulldog 44 spl but with better cylinder lock up.

That was the 450. I got to shoot one once. A local member of the forum had one and let me shoot one when we went to the range. It was a great shooter. The 450 was high on my want list, but I didn't have much money back then. I remember the last one I saw, a Total Titanium model at a gun show. The price was reasonable but not (based on prices at the time) terrific. I decided to wait until I could better afford it and I wanted a steel model. If I knew it would be the last one I saw, I'd have bought it.

Unfortunately, Taurus discontinued it in favor of the Judge. I'm not a fan of the Judge anyway, and I hate them since they are the cause of the demise of the 450 which I think had the makings of a near perfect carry revolver. Now, they are rare on the online auctions (and I never see them on the local used market), and when you do see them they are $700-800.

 

[Fjblair]

The .45LC and .45 ACP are easily my favorite center fire calibers/handguns.

 

[fastbolt]

I've always has an affinity for the venerable .45 Colt since my early handloading days, when I was loading from mild to wild (Ruger-Only pages of the older manuals). Although I've not been a handloader for many years, I've still got a nice stash of older handloads I put back for my Ruger Blackhawk.

The only .45 Colt I own is a Ruger Blackhawk Convertible (.45Colt/ACP cylinders) with a handy 4 5/8" barrel.

The factory loads most easily found on shelves nowadays offer 185gr or 225gr JHP's running 850-920fps, which puts the old Colt load in the neighborhood of the .45ACP for defensive bullet weight/velocities. Not too shabby.

Of course, moderately loaded 255gr LSWC offerings can still appeal to the heavy-for-caliber crowd who also like a nicely sized meplat.

I suspect this caliber will last as long as there's still revolvers being made.

 

[Mr.RevolverGuy]

I may have to agree fastbolt. What is this stuff about not reloading anymore?

 

[fastbolt]

I may have to agree fastbolt. What is this stuff about not reloading anymore?

Reloading was something I grew up enjoying with my father for many years. Once I entered LE and was able to increasingly shoot on the agency's dime and ammo inventory, and was increasingly busy working OT and trying to raise a family, my hobby time was curtailed.

Once my father moved out-of-state and then died too young (cancer), I only had my younger brother left with whom to enjoy the hobby. (He's always remained a serious reloader.) Now that he's retired and moved out-of-state, and I no longer live where I can just wander the backwoods and enjoy plinking with my father and brother, I'm not so sure I have the interest to get back into it.

Now that I've been retired for several years, I've found that there's other things I enjoy doing and I've let the older hobby slip away. Besides, my hobby money has been increasingly invested in motorcycles, cigars (which is an expensive vice) and a renewed interest in my knife collection.

Now, if I was still in the "collecting & acquisition" phase like when I was a younger man, and hadn't focused so much on building a collection of "working" guns as a LE firearms trainer and armorer, I'd be busy collecting all manner of Ruger Blackhawks and Vaqueros.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

For those reasons, I find that .45 Schofield/S&W is the answer. The case is smaller so there's less air gap, I want to believe the brass is a bit thinner and thus requires lower pressures to expand and fit to the chamber for full obturation, but in a .45 Colt revolver the .45 S&W is still capable of shooting the 250 grain bullets.

Howdy Again

Just for the fun of it I grabbed a handful of 45 Colt brass and 45 Schofield brass. They are all running the same thickness at the case mouth, right about .012 or .013.

I don't know about any other brands, but just about everything I load these days is Starline.

Regarding the case rim situation, standard rim diameter for 45 Colt is .512, standard rim diameter for 45 Schofield is .520. The only revolver that ever gave me trouble seating the larger rims of the Schofield rounds was an 'original model' Vaquero. As you can see in this photo, the area of the ratchet teeth on the Vaquero cylinder on the left has less clearance around the rims than the scallop shaped ratchet teeth of the Colt cylinder on the right. With that particular revolver, there was not quite clearance at one chamber only for the larger Schofield rims to seat all the way. About ten minutes with a file took care of the problem.

I don't think I have ever loaded 45 Schofield with Smokeless powder, I have only ever loaded it with Black Powder.

Here is an interesting photo. On the far left is one of my 45 Colt rounds, on the right is one of my 45 Schofield rounds. The 45 Colt round holds about 35 grains of Schuetzen FFg powder under the 250 grain bullet. (Modern solid head cases do not have as much case capacity as the old Balloon Head brass.) The Schofield round has about 28.5 grains of FFg Schuetzen under the 200 grain bullet. That 45 Colt round will do about 700 fps out of a 7 1/2" revolver barrel. Sorry, I have no velocity information for the Schofield round. The two funny copper cased rounds in the center of the photo are the original Benet primed, folded rim versions of these cartridges, 45 Colt on the left and 45 Schofield on the right. The odd crimps near the base hold the inside primed anvil plate in place.

Regarding why is 45 Schofield not as easily available as 45 Colt? I suspect it is simply lack of demand.

 

[TruthTellers]

Howdy Again

Just for the fun of it I grabbed a handful of 45 Colt brass and 45 Schofield brass. They are all running the same thickness at the case mouth, right about .012 or .013.

I don't know about any other brands, but just about everything I load these days is Starline.

Same with me, I only use Starline for .45 Schofield. I was just under the assumption that the brass may be thinner as that usually seems to be the case with shorter cases. When I get around to it, I'll check both .45 S&W and .45 Colt Starline brass I have. Given that I use high quality micrometers and other metrology equipment at work, I may find a noticeable difference. Will update if I do.

Regarding why is 45 Schofield not as easily available as 45 Colt? I suspect it is simply lack of demand.

For which reasons we can only guess. All I can say is people who dis the .45 Colt's accuracy vs .44 Special are likely correct, but that doesn't mean the .45 revolver is inaccurate and they should try several loads in .45 Schofield instead before they pass judgement.

The .45 Colt is larger than .44 Magnum, but operates at max pressures almost 1/3rd that of .44 Mag, so low the max pressure is actually less than that of .44 Special.

 

[Ruger45LC]

Absolutely it is, it's probably my all time favorite cartridge. I love the versatility of it, you can go from powder puff cowboy rounds to moose/elk/big bear medicine with the same cartridge. I've had my share of the them, currently my only revolver is a 454 BFR Bisley, but it lives its life mostly as a 5 shot .45 Colt.