That Grand Garand.....

G

glockjeeper

New member
I know its history, most of it anyway, but need some first hand experiences about how you like the way it shoots. I'm wanting to get one real bad, but know how expensive original, excellent condition ones go for. Shooter quality goes around $400-$600 that I've seen. Does anyone have any experience with these newer ones with US made receivers and assembled with parts kits? Any good, worth the buy? My buddy has gotten one recently but works out of town now and I can't get ahold of him to see what he thinks.
And I know Garands are good rifles. General George S. Patton said that they were "the best battle implement ever devised."
 
Please...God no...

Those new receivers are in one word awful. Out of tolerances, shoddy, and according to quite a few Garand smiths...maybe even dangerous. About that, I dont know..but what I do know is that you should do yourself a favor and buy the real deal. They are still only $500 from the CMP and they are the real deal.

I have owned all types of semi-autos imaginable. All of them do NOT compare to my old SA 42' Garand. The old warhorse always works and does so well. My advice: Get a CMP and preserve our history..or look on the market and you will find the right one...you will know it when you see it.

Patton was right. Go with the original. Go with the one that saved the world.
 
Glockjeeper,
The Garand shoots great. Mine was from National Match Armory, south of Fort Worth Tx. I believe he has anything
from decent shooters all the way to bedded, reworked
trigger group, etc. 'match rifles'. Mine was bedded
and has a nice trigger (for a battle rifle, I'm impressed)!
He also has a LIFETIME warranty! If I'm not mistaken, the
town is Southlake. I'm happy with mine; it's a super nice
parts gun but what the heck? I'm a shooter first and foremost.
Bob
 
garands

I would seriously suggest that you obtain one from CMP, if you can. The rifle you then get will definately have a U.S. MILSPEC RECIEVER AND BOLT. Other parts are replaceable items.

When I first started shooting in high power competition, a long time ago, the only rifle I had was a Garand, matter of fact, it was a Winchester Garand. While I never really learned to shoot off hand, I won a bunch of medals at 600 yards and a few at 1000. I never was able to determine how much ammunition went through the barrel, before I got the rifle, I put in excess of 10,000 through it, and the rifle never seriously failed me. Ultimately, I wore it out, and traded it off on a bolt gun. It did break a firing pin along the way, but that was an easy fix, akin to unscrewing a burned out light bulb, then replaceing it.

Perhaps I should have kept the old Garand, which I paid the grand amount of about $65 for, in 1965. Alas, to late to reconsider now.
 
Miltech restored rifles

Have any of you guys heard of these? They are in Kali and rework your exsisting Garands, M1 30 Carbines, K98 Mausers, 03A3 Springfields and '41 Johnsons. They really know their stuff with these rifles and rework them to "as issued" condition. If you supply the Garand the cost is $825 and if you buy the rifle reworked from them the cost is $1475. They have match grade stainless barrels and new stocks, etc. and also parkerized to original mil-spec. They even ship them in a crate like the originals. Guarenteed to group 1.5" at 100yards with a variety of ammo. There is an article in the latest issue of Guns Magazine. I would love to have one of these but the price is what scares me away from them. But if I decide I really want this rifle then I'll get the money together somehow. I want to shoot it and not collect it. If you have any questions about the article then post your questions about it here and I'll try to answer them.
As far as the CMP goes, I've been on their website and read about their Garands. Don't you have to join something to be able to get these? A local club or something? I can't remember now.
 
Glockjeeper:

Check requirements with CMP, however as I recall, one has to be a member of a club that has a junior component. I believe that membership in your state association would do.

As for MILTECH, I've been seeing their ads for quite a while, but I have never seen the results of their efforts. They redo some foreign rifles, as well as U.S. Military.
 
Alan, they do the Garand ($825 on yours and $1475 if they supply the rifle), '03A3 Springfield ($1095), M-1 Carbine ($1025 with $100 extra for Rock-ola and Winchester marked carbines), 1917 Enfields ($1025), K98 Mausers ($1025), 1941 Johnson ($3495-due to only around 50,000 originally made). They will also do Mk IV Lee-Enfields and '03A4 sniper versions of the Springfield on a limited basis. These are built to shoot and are identical, if not better, then when they came out of the cosmoline when issued to the troops. They sound like they are worth it if you can drop the money for 'em.

The prices I've quoted above are out of the article I mentioned in an earlier post and are for the rifle supplied by Miltech along with their work on them. The article only mentioned a price for a customer supplied rifle for the Garand.
 
Glockjeeper:
According to "Gun Tests" magazine, the MILTECH rifles suck big time.

Well, let me rephrase that. If you buy them as a decoration, they're great. Very pretty. And come in a nice retro wooden shipping crate.

But if you're looking for something that you're going to shoot, run screaming away from MILTECH.

If you go to http://www.gun-tests.com there's a phone # you can use to order the back issue that talks about MILTECH (it's not an online back issue).

---

Your best best for a Garand is to either get one through the CMP (FORMERLY DCM): http://www.odcmp.com, or to get one from Fulton Armory (http://www.fulton-armory.com), or a little of both (get it from CMP, sent it to Fulton for tuning).

---

Just the other day I was at the local range and a guy was showing off the Garand he got from a local gun show. When asked why he didn't get it from the CMP, he said, "Why bother? It's the same cost at the gun show."

During his first clip of ammo, the trigger group fell out of the bottom of his rifle.

Same cost, but not the same quality.
 
I am not up on a MILTECH Garand, but I have seen a CAI Garand and believe me and the other posters on this thread when we say it is Junk with a capital J. The receiver has been declared that (JUNK) by none other than Fulton Armory which is a reputable company. The one that I saw had a receiver that was sad when compared to an "original GI" no matter the make, be it SA HRA WRA or IH, the CAI just cannot compare to the 4 forementioned receivers. The parts were not even all GI as they advertise. Some (the gas cylinder in particular) seemed to be new in manufacture but very crudely made, it looked like "pot metal". It had no name stamped on it, and was loose on the barrel even though the cylinder lock screw was tight (I did not unscrew it to check the cylinder lock). The barrel was SA, but the bore did not seem very bright, it looked as if it had lots of roughness in it. It looked as if some corrosive ammo had been run through it and weeks elasped before it was cleaned, therefore leaving pitting in the bore. CMP is the way to go and if you will take a Danish re-import the cost is $400 instead of $500. These rifles are not guarenteed but are in very good shape. Probably the worst thing that you may get is one with a worn bore. I was lucky, mine is a SA of 1945 manufacture with the original barrel and great bore and chamber.
Now to the IMPORTANT stuff. Its a GREAT rifle to fire. It is a little heavy at 9 and some odd pounds, depending on density of the stock wood, but one thing about that weight is that it makes the 30-06 recoil feel like a 22. They are accurate, sturdy, not prone to breakage, and both a piece of history, and a battle rifle if TSHTF. No need to load hot for them as it is not necessary or recommended. Regular GI Ball ammo or some reloaded to those specs is what the doctor (John C. Garand) ordered. Stick with issue ammo or reload with a powder in the burning range of 4895 and 147-168 grain bullets, and it will last a lifetime and your childern's lifetime also.
 
International Harverster price?

Just got back from a gun store near here that has one of these in stock. Its collector grade quality, very nice looking, but for $1495! What would the value be of one of these in this condition? She is usually pretty high on her guns up there. She also had a Winchester made one that was $995 in slightly lesser condition but it was already sold to someone else. The serial number was 4582XXX btw.
 
Southla1:

It's always cracks me up when people apologize for the mere 9-lb weight of a Garand, 'cause the M-16 only weighs two lbs less, and the rifle that's supposed to replace the M-16 currently weighs twice as much as a Garand!

This battery-operated future monstrosity can be seen at:

http://shoga.wwa.com/~dvelleux//future.html

under "Objective Individual Combat Weapon".

They're still trying to get it down to 14 lbs. And make it waterproof. :rolleyes:
 
navaho, I can tell you that after 12 to 15 miles of rough country, a seven-pound rifle weighs some twenty pounds less than a 9-1/2-pound rifle.

:), Art
 
on the great garand

Re weight of the rifle, yes they weighed about 10#, maybe a little less. If one were going to run up and down hills with one, a lighter rifle would certainly carry more easily.

As for shooting one, I spent a lot of time with my head behind an M-1, 10,000 plus rounds in competition shooting. Never carried the thing more than a few hundred yards, on level ground though. The weight of the rifle was NOT any sort of bother. It's weight and gas operation helped to control recoil, which with much shooting can become factor, it's called shooter fatigue. Recoil becomes a factor too.
 
If all I was going to do with it was carry it around, I'd go with an AR or even a 10-22. If my life may one day depend on the thing, I have no choice but to depend on the Garand. It still is the greatest battle impliment ever devised. No magazine to get clogged up with dirt, or crap. You can leave clips loaded forever without worrying if a spring will lose its tension. Uses a reliable oprod system instead of some gas bleed system. Sights are easy to use, and recoil isn't bad at all. Reliable as an old labrador. CMP will sell you a Dane for 419.00 (with shipping). You just can't go wrong with the M1. Do please avoid the CAI (New American machined recievers). They do suck.
 
Man, what a sweet shooter. I absolutely LOVE my Garand.

I hate to rub it in, but I was so amazed at my luck, I gotta tell ya. I found a NIB Miltech Garand at an estate auction. I paid $750. This is a fantastic gun. If I had not found that Garand, I would have bought from CMP. Already had the application and everything. I've seen a couple of their rifles, and they are very solid.
 
kjm:

About there being no magazine to clog with dirt, isn't there a magazine inside the Garand itself? (i.e. follower pushing bullets through en-bloc clip)?

Detatchable magazine benefits from being able to pull/discard a failed magazine.

(I could be wrong about the Garand - I've only used those belonging to other people and have never really examined it - I have an M1A)


Battler.
 
International Harvester '53-'54

glockjeeper -- the 4.58M M-1 you saw is an IHC/IHC meaning that it was one of the IHC M-1's which IHC actually made the receiver. SA and H&R made some of their receivers while IHC was getting up to speed, but that sn range is all IHC, so no special collector value there. If its all original it should have an LMR (Line Material Rifle) barrel dated 53-54 or earlier, generally some of the best barrels that came on M-1's: bolt and op-rod should also be IHC. Don't worry about the looks or tightness of the gas cylinder, they're an old variety of stainless and do look like pot-metal -- they're not. When you pull it from the stock it should have a four digit number stamped inside the stock forend -- this is a "reverse" julian date (ie., first three digits correspond to day of year, last digit corresponds to year (3=1953)), this numbering is unique to IHC stocks.

Other sites you may want to hit for info: http://www.jouster.com/ is Culver's shooting Page, lots of Garand experience there and as someone mentioned http://www.fulton-armory.com/ for an educational FAQ page. Later.
 
In his book "About Face," Hackworth describes getting his Garand clogged up in his first month in Korea. He had "clipped" a couple of clips onto his sling (apparently the "cool" thing to do), and gotten some mud onto the rounds. In a firefight, he loaded a muddied clip into the Garand, causing a complete stoppage requiring a field-strip. If you think about it, a down side to the Garand's fixed-mag/en-bloc-clip system is that you only have limited access to the magazine and feed path from above. Most modern rifles allow access from two directions.
 
Ivanhoe, one aspect of the Garand and the M1A is that field-stripping for correcting one's sloppiness in mud takes just a few seconds.

Loaded and ready to fire, mud in the bolt face is mud in the bolt face, and it doesn't matter whether the piece is loaded from above or below.

I'm too lazy to go get my Garand and check, but IIRC, popping the bolt out for a quick clean-out is a matter of a few seconds of monkey-motion, without field-stripping. You can't do that with an HK, I know; I don't think such is possible with an FAL. Better access for cleaning, overall, than an AR...

I think Hackworth would admit that things he thought "cool" at age 22 or so didn't seem so neatsy-poo in later years.

:), Art
 
Miltech quality?

Dave AA, what do you think of your Miltech Garand? A previous post said to stay away from them after an article he read in Gun Tests Magazine. I don't have any further knowledge than that and the recent article in Guns Magazine about how they are made. I'm just wanting a first hand experience telling of how they do. Thanks.
 
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