Thanks

Mikey: Thanks for the missing piece. I knew when I was reading it I should have written it down! I am going to work on it with him.

You guys probably think I've gone over the edge, but even when my son is playing with water guns he is expected to say "I am going to squirt you" instead of "I am going to shoot you." It sounds crazy, but in my mind, society as a whole has become too desensitized to what "shooting someone" really means... and I guess in my own way I want to change that starting in my own little world (I am responsible for raising two boys so far - a four year old and an infant) even if it means beginning with something as simple as that.
 
GNR, Welcome!

You don't know how refreshing it is to find a Mom approaching the world of guns in the level-headed common sense manner you are. (Can you hear the applause?) I don't know any of the people on this board except electronically, but you won't find a better bunch. In fact, I can honestly say I have never found anyone who is a true shooting enthusiast who isn't friendly and will bend over backwards to help others even if they have to go way out of their way to do it. I think you also find that most are also anti-violence. I know this is a foreign concept to the anti-gun ostriches, but it is very true.

Again, welcome.
 
Thanks Mal H for those kind words! I like how you capitalized the "M" in mom as if it were to make it more honorable, like you capitalize it in "Marines." You do not know how much I am enjoying being able to ask questions here.
 
I think Moms are very honorable. As for capitalizing Marines, I had better or my Dad would have had me drawn and quartered! (Well, maybe he would have looked at me a little askance. ;) ) He took me to the Marine Corp rifle range at El Toro when I was only a few years older than your oldest. He made sure I knew how to handle and, more importantly, respect any and all guns. I've never forgotten those days.
 
Gunz & Rosie, Welcome to the group. We will be glad to help anyone that wishes to learn about firearms and firearms safety. It sounds like you have a level head on your shoulders (to be trite) and your family should be proud of what you are trying to do. You make it the reason we can call you capital "M" Mother. Ask and we will try to help.
 
Gunz;

>Although none of you probably watch Rosie, I have come to respect her for her caring heart.<

As did my wife. She watched Rosie each day and was viewing when Ms O'Donnell made her comments. Her reaction was shock.

She even was so upset that she called me at work. The reason she was so upset was that she knows how strongly I feel about The Constitution/Bill of Rights... hell I swore an oath to defended it over twenty years ago (16 of those years married to my wife). We have had discussions on these documents any my former duties (not job BTW) required personnel hardship on our families because of my oath. She was in shock that Rosie could have such a small understanding of the Bill of Rights (the 2d Amendemnt in particular) and call ALL gun owner criminals.

She immediately e-mailed Rosie a strong letter inquiring how she could say such (BTW as of yet NO responce). She has told me that she can not watch her anymore.

I've posted a site on Rosie's "web" trying to explain to the admitted non-expert (Rosie) about the Constitution & 2d Amendment. Currintly the site is small but it will become more indepth in the future.



------------------
Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
 
Hello Gunz-and-Rosie,

Well, being told we should all be put in prison does arouse interest. A few years back, a group called Citizens Against Guns called for imposition of martial law with the armed forces hunting down and executing "without the nonsense of a trial" anyone even suspected of ever having owned a gun of any kind and their families. All in the name of saving lives and non-violence.

To the demo question, I was mightily impressed as a young person when a friend fired a .357 Magnum into a canteloupe. Not enough left for fruit salad. Shooting into melons or water filled cans or plastic jugs leaves a lasting impression. "If you don't want to do this to someone, don't use a gun, because this is what a gun will do."

I am only afraid that in the modern era where youngsters see 8-10 thousand bloody killings before reaching 18, the lesson may not work. No matter how we try to teach our kids, the media tells them that guns and killing are the solution to any problem.

It is hardly surprising that the most bloody handed companies, like Time-Warner, are the first to insist that the entire problem is one of banning guns. They refuse to accept any responsibility.

Let's form a group called PAVE, People Against Violent Entertainment.

Jim
 
Thanks again for all your responses. I really appreciate it.

mikey: Thanks for the encouraging words concerning teaching my boys the difference between "real" and "bad."

walkin'man: I have thought about target shooting again some day in the future (even though the targets were just paper plates nailed to a tree).

David: I was disappointed as well as shocked. I expected to hear a "let's do a better job at raising our children (children in general - not necessarily just our own) and try to put an end to violence" type of inspirational comment. Like your wife, I was shocked to hear something entirely different. I think I had an out of body experience, because I just didn't even really hear what was being said after that. I am not even a gun owner. I can only imagine what all of you are experiencing. What is the direct link to your web site?

Jim: You are so right. Being told ALL gun owners should all be put in prison does arouse interest... even in those of us who choose not to own them. At least now I don't feel so clueless about some things. Thanks for the canteloupe idea. I feel a little discouraged in what I am attempting to do. It is hard to accept that whatever I do as a parent will be counteracted by something else (whether it is friends, movies, games, whatever... ). I cannot do "nothing." I have to do "something." My only hope is that somehow I manage to teach enough responsibility and morals in my boys that they learn to make responsible decisions as they grow older. I can only hope that should I ever get a knock on my door from a news reporter or LEO, it is to answer the question "so, what is it like having a hero for a son?" :)

Thanks again for all your comments and suggestions!

[This message has been edited by Gunz-n-Rosie (edited May 05, 1999).]
 
GNR,
I was forming the same thought as I read your note, then you said it at the end of your response to Jim! If you follow through with your plan of education vs. ignore-it-and-it-will-go-away, then you might be saving not only your own children but also other parents children. You may not recall that in one of the heinous school shootings last year (in Oregon?) an untold number of kids were saved when an NRA trained Boy Scout tackled the shooter when he was reloading. His knowledge and training gave him the courage to do this instead of just standing there waiting to be shot. This same opportunity occurred in Littleton, but unfortuneatly, none of the nearby students took advantage of it.
 
GNR
Great to have you here. If you are interested in reading some more about us, and even catching a photo or two, go to this link. It lists a bunch of sites that us gun owning types have posted on Rosie's AcmeCity site. You could even add a site of your own, pushing for firearm education rather than ignorance.

http://www.fulton-armory.com/Rosie.htm

Good lck with your children. I wasn't even allowed to own a squirt gun in my home. That was bad, since a good portion of my friends lived in rural areas and they always had guns in their home. Fortunately, I avoided being a statistic by never touching one until I learned how to handle it.

------------------
Fact, not Fiction, please.
 
Hey GnR,

Welcome to the Jungle. It's refreshing to see that there are clear thinking, logical non-gun people such as yourself out there. I only wish the general public was as level headed as you. By your statements, I think you'd make a great Engineer (sameless plug for Engineering, HA).

I was at home just in time to see the Rosie show that first day and was astounded as you were by her "...make it illegal for anyone to own a handgun." statement (they show the show in the late afternoons in this part of Ohio). Yet another example of emotional decision making before (at times without) evaluating all of the facts.

Good luck in your attempt in spreading the word about gun safety and ownership.

DC: May 19th?! That's my B-day too! May The Force Be With Him.

- Ron V.

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[This message has been edited by hksigwalther (edited May 05, 1999).]
 
GNR,
Well, if your ever in N.Virginia drop me an email we'll do some shootin' :)
Sorry for refering to you as a "gentleman". You must have been reading the posts in real time, that word stayed on for less than two minutes. My girlfriend said "what the makes you think thats a man, it's a woman". As usual she was right ;).

------------------
land of the free and the home of the brave
 
Gunz-N-Rosie, No , I'm not Ranger. I'll have
to check out Ranger. On Rosie's site I'm the "Crusty Old Guy"
Keep up your good work, keep on digging and raise your boys well. It does my heart good to see you doing the job that you are, gathering information where you can make an informed decision!
Keep up the good work! & Good Shooting! Hank
 
GnR, Let me add my welcome, too. As you may have noticed, we kind of feel it's our moral duty to help anyone who comes here with honest curiousity and an open mind with questions about firearms. We've been known to help students with term papers, provide research and links to appropriate sites, and share a lot of knowledge (and opinions, too).

Let me add that while we would love to count you among our number (as a firearms enthusiast), you will find that folks here will also respect your choice not to own guns. Guns aren't for everyone, but it's better for one to come to that conslusion based on facts rather than fear or ignorance.

Thanks you for your interest in firearms and for your participation in TFL. I hope you'll hang around or visit as time permits, your perspective as a non-owner is valuable and informative to us.

Best regards, M2
 
I have to say that I am impressed. Your one simple effort to TEACH instead of deny and condemn on this subject is a breath of fresh air.
 
Gunz-n-Rosie

A direct link to my abridged <a href="http://rosie.acmecity.com/luck/394">"Let try and educate this ignorant media star on the REALY purpose and effects of the 2nd Amendment of the Bill of Rights"</a> page can be found here. ;) I'm currently working on expanding the site to provided a more indepth study site for Ms O'Donnell.

------------------
Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"




[This message has been edited by David Schmidbauer (edited May 06, 1999).]
 
Gunz-n-Rosie, I had not read your thread until now. Wow. You are definitely doing my heart good, and you are also doing exactly what I'm doing with my boys. I'm a 47-year-old dad, CPA, MBA, and a 'green' firearms owner, generally. TFL has become my brotherhood for firearms education.

In a similar vein to your points, I had lunch today with a former college professor. He is also irritated with the ignorance surrounding the debate on firearms. He says he has never fired a gun in his life, but he will be going out with me to learn how. He feels that our media is demonizing a tool, and conveniently ignoring the tremendous psychological changes that have led to our current problems with violence. We had a refreshing conversation based upon logic and honest discussion.

Gunz-n-Rosie, I hope to see you on TFL frequently. You are very welcome here. Tell some more of Rosie's flock that we don't bite - after all, we're often your friends and neighbors.

Regards from AZ
 
Yikes! I have been using all my computer online time to do all the homework you guys provided me with! :) That’s a lot of stuff to read. You all have done nothing but make me feel welcome since I got here (so to speak).

Othermarc: My son’s water gun doesn’t exactly look like a gun. It’s shaped like an elephant and the barrell (I don’t know if I spelled that right) is the elephant’s trunk. We did not want him to have even a glowing neon water gun until we got it straight between us how we were going to approach the whole gun issue (I know, that probably sounds extreme). Thanks for the links to the sites. I had been looking through them as per Rob’s post on a Rosie thread. I haven’t made it through them all yet. You guys are doing a great job developing them. Yes, I have actually thought about creating one of my own. I’m still trying to figure out what I want to say and how to say it best.

Hksignwalther and Ron S: thanks for the words of encouragement.

Walkin’man: you’re right, I was reading in real time... I was rocking the baby when your post came up. Maybe you should listen to your girlfriend more often!

David Schmidbauer: thanks for the direct link to your site. It looks great! I found it very useful. I was always terrible with history (and anything concerning how the government works is history to me).

Mike in VA: I would love to offer my perspective as a non-owner whenever you would like it! You’ve all enlightened me and educated me on so many things already. I would be honored to offer you any opinions you ask for.

Hank L, you crusty old guy: I guess I’m taking my job as a mom pretty seriously lately.

Jeff Thomas: Like your professor, I too “feel that our media is demonizing a tool, and conveniently ignoring the tremendous psychological changes that have led to our current problems with violence.” I guess that’s why I am trying so hard to gather information. I apologize for making so many posts. I was telling my husband after the Columbine tragedy that although this wasn’t the first, for some reason (even before all the serious blame game) it affected me the most. Somehow, things seem different. I can’t just sit by as a spectator this time. I think my Rosie flock is a little burned out right now. I’ll try though.

I guess it’s long past due for me to let you know a little bit more about me. I recently quit a 7-year career as a graphic designer/animator in television to take on the rewarding job of raising my two sons (preschooler and infant) and our dog. I graduated from college in graphic arts. I almost completed enough courses to have a third major – in early childhood education. However, being in the classroom was too depressing for me and I had to just let it go. I may pursue it again someday when my kids are all grown up. Although I am now in my 30s, I only registered to vote 2 years ago. I never bothered to exercise that right for three reasons: (1) although that truly was my right, I did not feel that I had earned the right to use it (I was too lazy and uncertain as to what I truly believed to make an informed decision – and I didn’t feel I should vote until I understood what it was I was voting for); (2) I was sick of all the negative campaigning. I didn’t want to hear what “the other candidate” did or did not do. I thought that if I voted, I would be picking the one I didn’t like the least. (3) none of the issues seemed to affect me directly, therefore it didn’t matter to me (funny, but after I became a mother, my whole view of the world changed). That’s the honest truth.

Again, I’m sorry for asking so many questions. I feel as though I’ve made myself at home here. Thanks again for all your help.


[This message has been edited by Gunz-n-Rosie (edited May 26, 1999).]
 
Rosie:

Never feel sorry for asking questions. That's how we learn. That is one of the greatest things about the inter-net. The free exchange of ideas and information. Although there is a lot of garbage on the net, there is an awful lot of good resources.

I've been studying the 2nd for over two years now... most of my resources have been obtained off the net. When I can't find it here, more often than not at least I can find out what I'm looking for. The name of the article or the reference to it. To date I have over 60mg of files I've downloaded dealing with the ligislative and judical history of the 2nd. I've got copies of most of the early writings of Locke, Hobbs etc.

Knowledge is king....

"Enlighten people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day." --Thomas Jefferson

So never feel sorry for asking a question.

Thanks,

Richard

The debate is not about guns, but rather who has the ultimate power to rule, the people or government.
 
Those who don't know and don't ask remain ignorant.

Knowledge is power.
Unfortunately, power is not always knowledge.

- Ron V.

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