Texas Hospital No Gun Sign

Thanks for the responses. I am not riling things up. I do object to intimidation as a response. But I did speak with the lady who is checking
into the matter and she is very nice. She will let me know what the intent of the sign is when she has an answer. That is all I expect, and I will not name
the hospital. If I was there, and proceeded to carry, and then security
detained me, based upon the non legal sign, then it creates a problem for my daughter who is like a 3 year old while I am being detained.

So if their intent is nobody allowed to carry ot their facility, then I need to know that, and that gives me the time to find another doctor. If that is the
case, then I will name the facility. There is no need to name the facility
because they may not have any problem at all with permit holders carrying there. I have not got the answer to that yet.

If I went to a shopping mall and there was a No Gun Sign which did not
meet the Texas Requirement, I would likewise not shop there. Thats my
right. I am unwilling to become a victim to satisfy political correctness.
 
Silent Bob: A local hospital (TMC of Denison) is posted with a very visible "gunbuster" sign but not a 30.06 sign. My understanding from my CHL class is that they must be properly posted with a 30.06 sign, so I carried my .45 in when I went to go visit my grandmother after her heart surgery. It would have been preferable that you hadn't contacted the hosptial about their sign, next time you probably will find a legal 30.06 sign posted. I prefer not to educate places about non-legal signs. I hope this wasn't TMC you've riled things up at.
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No Silent Bob, that was not the hospital involved. As long as they are nice about it, and provide me an answer, I am willing to use other facilities which I already have access to where there are no such signs, and where my civilian doctors know I carry and have a permit. On this issue a local gunshop, the best one around, not far from where I live, has a sign which
requires gun owners to disarm before going into the gunshop. They definitely lose a lot of my business because of that sign. I respect the sign,
I do not violate it even if the sign is not legal, but I don't have to buy from them. I don't make a scene about it, nor rile them up about their sign, but I can always find somewhere else to conduct my business. The same applies to the hospital facility which has medical providers who practice there.
The lady I am speaking with thanked me for bringing it to her attention and I expect an answer in a few days.
 
I get my medical treatment in a local facility which has two separate hospital buildings and two separate office complexes.

The two hospital buildings and one of the office buildings is properly posted per section 30.06.

One of the office buildings is not so posted.

I've been curious as to why but will not ask for fear that I'll find it legally posted the next time I go in there.

OTOH, I also have suspicions that the building is purposely not so posted to accomodate those health-care professionals who carry.

It's difficult, but not impossible, to know the law (Texas legislature, in it's last regular session, passed more than 1700 new laws for us citizens :mad:).

Best,

Will

P.S.: To be fair, that 1700+ number also includes some unknown number of "resolutions", which are not exactly laws.
 
Bartholmew Roberts: This is a bad idea. The law provides that if you have notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the property owner, you may not carry a concealed handgun. There are two ways you may receive this notice. One is through oral communication. One is through written communication
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.

I have already mentioned that in previous posts in this thread. I am well aware that if you are informed verbally or in writing by someone in authority
that you may not carry that refusal to leave the facility at that point is
a violation. What I am referring to is not giving notice, and detaining someone based just upon the non enforceable sign, thereby creating a
problem for my disabled daughter while I am being detained for violation
of a non enforcable sign.

And if that is the case then I will respect the sign, if that is their intent,
but at the same time, then I will name the specific hospital and let others
know about their policy. They have the right to stop CWP holoders from
carrying either with a 30.06 sign, or verbal or written notice, but not
to do that based upon a non enforceable sign. You probably do not have
a disabled person you are a caretaker for, so if they detained you and let
you go later that might not be a problem for you but it is for me.

I go overboard to comply with the owners intent. I expect the courtesy of
an answer before the situation arises where it is a problem for me and
a disabled family member. Someone though who has an officer come
visit me because I asked about the sign, though I find objectionable. :)
 
Quote:
*On the premises of a Hospital licensed under the Health and Safety Code
*On the premises of a nursing home licensed under the Health and Safety Code

This is from the Hangunlaw web sight. From what I see and how I interpret the laws the sign in this case is a moot point. reading the above quote.
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This quote from the Handgunlaw web site is out of date. Current law says removed that restriction from hospitals, putting them in the same class as other business and requiring specific written notification as mentioned in previous posts.

TXJustice7, if a business is not providing effective notice I would not recommend asking for their stance. You might be told (effective verbal notice) that they do not want you to carry there. If you don't ask, you have not been given effective notice, though.

BTW, if you want to alert other CHL holders of the notice (effective or not) you can sign up and report it at www.texas3006.com. This is a database compiled for just this purpose.
 
Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:
(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;

(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

I interpret this, as did my CHL instructor, that a hosptial must be properly posted with a 30.06 compliant sign in order to bar CHL holders.

TexasJustice 7, didn't mean to sound snarky with you, but I have heard of CHL carriers confronting owners of businesses about their non-compliant signs only to return and find legal, compliant signs in their place. My policy is if the sign is not legal, then I ignore it and do not educate the owner on their ignorance. I am not in the habit of letting people other then close friends and family know that I carry a gun anyway.
 
TexasJustice 7, didn't mean to sound snarky with you, but I have heard of CHL carriers confronting owners of businesses about their non-compliant signs only to return and find legal, compliant signs in their place. My policy is if the sign is not legal, then I ignore it and do not educate the owner on their ignorance. I am not in the habit of letting people other then close friends and family know that I carry a gun anyway.
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My brother in law enforcement interprets that unless it is posted with a 30.06 sign it is not enforecable, but in my case I did not want a situation happening where they might detain me, for violating their unenforcable sign.
If they give me proper notice, oral, written or otherwise, then I will not
carry there, but I will terminate the medical provider's services that my
daughter gets there.

I don't think however, we should violate the owner's intent just because their sign is not legal notice, and I would rather respect the owner's
intent, and get services from somewhere else.

Someone mentioned that maybe the reason the 30.06 signs have not
gone up, it might be that some of the doctors carry. I had not thought
about that, but I think that maybe this issue had not been addressed.
I know in Texas, hospitals as well as a number of other government
entities prohibited CWP holders from carrying but SB 501 removed the
right from some of them to do that. I don't know if the hospital falls
into that category. The lady I am in contact with seems very receptive
to the issues I have raised, and I am not trying to cause them a problem.
I just need an answer. I did not like someone from there having a police officer contact me, but it might not have been her. Could have been some
anti gun person who overheard her conversation on the phone with me.

I endure this at Federal VA facilities, but at least when it comes to civilian medical care, I can vote with my feet.

:)
 
My understanding is that any business may post a handmade "no guns" sign, but it does not have the force of law. However, if the shop owner is serious and somehow sees your concealed weapon, he may ask you to leave, and police can be called if you refuse, under trespass laws. A sign meeting the exact letter of the 30.06 portion of the law is the only way to enforce keeping guns out of your establishment. I've been in two hospitals in the Austin area since I got my CHL (as a visitor) and both had 30.06 signs posted. My gun stayed in the trunk of the car.
 
TJ7:

I understand your stance on wanting to respect the wishes of an establishment, but I fail to see what the confusion at the hospital is. They clearly posted the sign, so they are telling you that they'd prefer you didn't carry there. The fact that they didn't follow the 30.06 requirements means that it is more of a suggestion or a request and not a law. Kind of like the orange and black signs on a highway offramp that tell you how fast they think you should go on the cloverleaf. Life is full of decisions and it is my feeling that the fewer that are made for us, the better. If a business suggests that I don't carry, but I don't feel right about leaving my tools in the car for whatever reason, I have options (I can ignore it, I can lock hardware in the car, or I can choose to not be a patron). If someone tells them that their sign could be more prohibitive and they upgrade it, it just takes away my options ... :mad:

Saands
 
Saands: I understand your stance on wanting to respect the wishes of an establishment, but I fail to see what the confusion at the hospital is. They clearly posted the sign, so they are telling you that they'd prefer you didn't carry there. The fact that they didn't follow the 30.06 requirements means that it is more of a suggestion or a request and not a law. Kind of like the orange and black signs on a highway offramp that tell you how fast they think you should go on the cloverleaf. Life is full of decisions and it is my feeling that the fewer that are made for us, the better. If a business suggests that I don't carry, but I don't feel right about leaving my tools in the car for whatever reason, I have options (I can ignore it, I can lock hardware in the car, or I can choose to not be a patron). If someone tells them that their sign could be more prohibitive and they upgrade it, it just takes away my options ...
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Well I guess here is my assessment. If their intent is CWP Holders, not
carry (sign not written in Spainish either), then they need to tell me, that,
or put up 30.06 signs, in either case, I will identify the hospital and make it public information. But say, I ignore the sign, and am detained and someone has to be called to get my handicapped daughter, then the apologies would come but so would a lawsuit. I do not beleive for one minute if I were a crime victim on their property that they would be willing at all to share any criminal liability. Fine, if they do not want CWP holders, then
my business for which they are getting paid for, plus their medical procedures, can be paid for somewhere else. In this day and age, 90
year old women get body scanned at airports, just because the government
does not address the real problem. I am sure that if they illegally detained me based upon the unenforcable signs, they would apologise later, but then
someone woud have had to come from another state to get my disabled
daughter. Then they would think it unreasonable for me to file a lawsuit over it. I am not looking for trouble nor something to sue for. Just make
it clear whether it applies to me. But when they make it clear, that they
do not want me nor other CWP holders to carry there, then I can take my
business and my daughter's elsewhere, and the information can be made public. Having a police officer visit someone asking about an unenforcable sign is like treating CWP holders like they have Leprousy. While the lady
I am speaking with may not have done that, someone there did.
 
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