Testing Loads

[hounddawg]

Hounddawg,

It's not the ogive that you worry about when doing a new load.
It's the shoulder length, material, construction.

I have had both sitting on my shelf at the same time and tested the two side by side both using same powder charges. When talking about the 69 SMK non tipped HPBT and the Nosler CC they are practically identical. Both are .224 in diameter and weigh 69.0 gns appx. Both are HPBT's and measure .90 inches. Both are made of lead and have a medium thick copper jacket. One or the other has a slightly smaller meplat but for all practical measures are identical bullets and can be loaded exactly the same.

The Nosler CC is considerably cheaper and shoots superbly which is why I can't take a picture of a SMK and a Nosler side by side. There are probably a dozen or so SMK's mixed in with whats left of a 1000 round box of Noslers but a magnifying glass and a lot of time looking at meplats would be the only way to find them.

My AR's both love both of those bullets loaded to magazine length with some Varget or TAC but my bolt gun only shoots them so so. It likes 77 and 80's much better

I don't think Nosler is shy about taking SMK's and pretty much copying them and re marketing as Custom Competition. Check out the 6.5 123 SMK and 123 Nosler CC as another example

 

[ninosdemente]

RC20, do know it will take time and I am willing to take the time. Not that one really has any other choice if one is trying to accomplish such task I imagine. Lol.

Perhaps, my somewhat downfall is that I still go to Cabela's and go off from that. I don't do any shopping online for reloading materials or hardware for that matter. Perhaps by this thinking I am just closing doors on myself rather than opening them. Sierra is limited, had a bad experience with VMAX and tend to stay away from Hornady, and there is a lot of Nosler options available for my caliber. Not trying to go crazy on testing as have to be realistic, still have a lot of time behind the trigger to get better. So at least in the back of my mind, wonder if my shooting skills can possibly provide "inaccurate" results. Meaning thinking that this specific load might be the one.

---

std7mag, funny I do have Nosler BT 150gr as testing. Not where I want to be but then again as mentioned, my skills are not that great or I am not adjusting the scope properly for this firearm. No problem with the scope on the Savage, so this is having me believe it is strictly user error. I did purhcase the Nosler BT 165gr. Haven't loaded those yet until I finish the 150gr.

 

[Unclenick]

Ninodesmente,

Nosler does have the 69-grain bullet data. It is just under 5.56×45 NATO instead of 223 Remington. The reason is their 223 Rem test barrel has a 12" twist and their 64-grain bullet was the heaviest it could stabilize. Their 5.56×45 NATO test barrel has a 7" twist, so it can handle all the heavies. I compared their 5.56 loads to the same bullet weight loads in Hodgdon's data for 223 Remington with H335 and Varget. The Hodgdon maximums were the same or higher, so the 5.56 data Nosler put up is not at the warmer M855/SS109 or still warmer M855A1 pressures. Just good old M193 pressure, which matches SAAMI's 223 pressure. Unlike some other chamberings (308 in particular) 5.56 brass has no less capacity than commercial brass and is interchangeable for pressure purposes. It's main advantage is in self-loaders as the harder heads stand up to extraction better. The external case dimensions are the same.

Your gun's 9" twist will be fine with the 69-grain standard match bullets, but not the longer 69-grain VLD's or the lengths and, in theory, it should stabilize some of the 77-grain match bullets, but that's kind of a shaky subject as some folks with 9" twist guns find the stubby 77's work well for them and others do not. Berger recommends an 8" rifling pitch when you get to their version of that bullet, but it is longer than the Nosler and Sierra versions. Even barrel twists have a tolerance, and a barrel whose twist is on the long side of tolerance vs one on the short side of it may make a critical difference.

Your powders are on the slow side for the 55's. Reloader 10X, Benchmark, H322 and H335 should work well with it. Under some circumstances, the slow powders can cause barrel ringing when used with too light a bullet.

Unlike the others, I'll suggest you do all your accuracy testing at 200 yards. When the accuracy gets good, more range is better and, in general, 300 yards is considered best as it is long enough for muzzle velocity variation to show up as change in bullet drop.

I'll suggest reading Dan Newberry's OCW method.

The older Audette ladder method is in the second part of this old post.

More folks seem to try to find velocity flat spots these days, but I haven't had the opportunity to see how that compares to the other two methods yet, so my jury of one remains out on that subject.

Good luck with it!

 

[hounddawg]

More folks seem to try to find velocity flat spots these days, but I haven't had the opportunity to see how that compares to the other two methods yet, so my jury of one remains out on that subject.

I only worry about low ES and SD for 500 and out. I am taking this load in two different directions.

for 300 and less I will use the 40gn load. I may try a few other primers to get ES and SD down and use it for long range also. I might even load up 5 at 39.9 or 39.8 to shoot over the chrono. I would bet money there is a flat spot there just below 40.0

https://imgur.com/JlvAgEU

for 500 + I am running further tests between 41.5 and 41.8 at 300. See how it groups and if it maintains over the course of 20 shots. If I get flat velocity I will play with bullet seating fine tuning in .003 to .005 increments to tighten the groups

https://imgur.com/S3cHsw4

when I load develop now I do the brunt of it at 100. First doing a rough seating test Berger style 5 shots each looking for grouping patterns, then 3 shot load test across a chrono. I try and shoot as well as I can but my main interest is velocity. Then I analyze the two tests and refine at 300 with small changes to load and seating

3 or 5 shots do not make a winning load or a stable velocity, but they can show you where to look. When you can put 20 sub MOA that is a good load.

Some key points to remember is

Large groups usually repeat;
Large groups with large standard deviations always repeat;
Small groups caused by luck never repeat. - https://northamericanarms.com/ballistics/stddev/



BTW I will trust bullet manufacturer data over powder manufacturer data any day of the week in the future. I have Sierra and Hornady but by the end of the month the Nosler and Berger manuals will be joining them

 

[Unclenick]

Small groups caused by luck never repeat.

Unfortunately, they do...eventually. This is how we get shooters who spend a whole day at the range shooting 3-shot groups until they get one really tight one, then proclaim it proves what the gun and ammo can do when they do their part, and then pack up and go home to revel in their illusion.

 

[hounddawg]

lol you mean the guy shooting M80 ball out of 16 inch barreled $400 AR who claims he can get .5 groups? I always nod and say do it again and leave it at that because small groups caused by luck are not impossible but they are rare

There are days at the range that go better than others however, we have all had the day when you could throw the bullets and get X's and other days when the junior high rifle team would make us hang our heads

 

[Unclenick]

True enough! When I was actively competing in International Air Pistol, I would practice every single day in my basement pellet range. There were whole weeks sometimes where I just couldn't miss and I would test my luck by contorting myself into trick shot positions and the darn pellets would still score 10's. However, to illustrate just how psychological that all is, these single weeks were always about two-weeks before a match. I don't think I ever shot a match when I was in part of one. But man, there were a few times I could get on the heels of a world record as long as nobody was watching. I think Don Nygord had the world record in competition at that time. I still had dreams of maybe trying out for the Olympics then, but real life got in the way. Long ago and far away, now.