I should let this thread die, but I feel like putting my two cents in.
I dunno,
My shooting buddy and I spent many years shooting in the desert at cans and such. We recently started going to the range again every week.
The indoor range has measured distances so we know how far we are shooting. We put the sillouette out to 15 yards and shoot our stock Glocks for head shots. We always shoot offhand in our preffered stance unless we are doing some wierd drill that day.
We have absolutely no problem taking a hi-cap mag and riddling one ragged 2 inch hole at 15 yards on any given day. No, 15 yards is not 25 yards. It would take a good day to do 2 inches at 25 yards, but it has been done on many occasions in my long shooting experience, and I consider myself no great shooter.
The stock Glock, according to Ransom tests, can shoot a 1 inch group at 25 yards and a 2 inch group at 50 yards, so I know the gun can easily shoot 2 inches at 25 yards, it is just up to me to come through. Maybe that mentality helps me accomplish that goal.
So, short answer is, I don't doubt that at least some of the better shooters here can shoot 2 inch groups at 25 yards on a good day.
The key is just to shoot a lot instead of sitting around talking about shooting a lot. And when I shoot, I shoot with purpose as a training experience, so I get better. Most people on the other hand, (not that I put them down for it because it is their choice), tend to talk and read about shooting and obsess over the next gun, rather than just going and and....actually shooting! And when they do shoot, they just do it for fun. That is perfectly fine, but it will never get anyone to a higher level of ability.
On the other hand, some people are just talented. Women tend to shoot better, and my friend has a good theory: Men just start shooting and try to figure everything out themselves. Once the man has been shooting for ten years and has developed all kinds of bad habits as well as all kinds of truly good advice, his wife gets into shooting. In her first lesson, she gets ten years worth of shooting experience taught to her, sans the bad habits that the man developed by not getting good instruction. So, women tend to appear to pick up on these things quicker. If any beginner has the good fortune of getting lessons from a very experienced person in any field, they are going to pick up the skill very quickly...that's why smart people pay for lessons when they start..
Also, women have better optical ability to contrast colors, thereby differentiate the sights and target better, and they have a softer heartbeat. Yep, women do have a genetic advantage as well as possibly the other advantage I just discussed.
To be honest, no beginner woman that I have shot with, including my wife, has been THAT good with a gun, but they do pick up quick. I WANT my female friends and loved ones to be a better shot than me...they need it more than I do because I can better resort to H/H if I miss.
The following is NOT how I usually measure my 15 yard groups, but I think that standard protocol is to shoot a 5 shot group, and toss out the flyer (there always seems to be a flyer, usually shooter induced, or a bad round). Tossing out TWO flyers? Man, that is generous.
FWIW, when I am shooting aimed fire, I shoot just like I was taught to shoot a rifle at long range. Breeaaath and Squeeeze as you exhale. Works for me.
Oh yeah, and I just shoot whatever junk ammo I can get for my Glock. Never really tried to find the perfect accruate load for the gun, but would like to pursue that someday.
I really think that shooting is all mental. If you KNOW you can shoot a tight group, then you can. If you program yourself that you can't, then you won't.
[This message has been edited by Red Bull (edited December 06, 1999).]