Tell me again why I buy new guns?

S

ScottRiqui

New member
Three of my last four guns that I've bought new have required some kind of work to get them to function reliably (I'm talking about work beyond simple "break-in", which some would argue shouldn't be necessary either.)

Meanwhile, I just bought a used Beretta 84 that's 25 years old and appears to have been only lightly used and it runs perfectly. I've also got an 80-year old S&W pre-Model 10 that's never had anything done to it besides cleaning. There's a little extra fore-and-aft play in the cylinder but it still goes "bang" every time I pull the trigger.

I'm starting to think I should just stick to used guns...
 
First, the used weapons you're talking about are proven. They have been used and therefore work. Second, nobody checks every gun and does hand fitting any more.
 
Part of it can be "they don't make them like they used too" but part of it can be what you bought. Not all guns are created (made) equal.

Either way, hope your luck gets better!
 
Meanwhile, I just bought a used Beretta 84 that's 25 years old and appears to have been only lightly used and it runs perfectly. I've also got an 80-year old S&W pre-Model 10 that's never had anything done to it besides cleaning.
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Maybe the first owner already fixed them:)
 
Baloney. I have two Beretta M9 pistols and both worked flawlessly out of the box. No work required. I also have about 20 older S&W pinned barrel pistols and the ones I shoot all work flawlessly. Nothing has been done to a single one of them since coming from the factory except switching grips on two of them. I bought most of them new myself so I know the history.

I agree the newer guns are not made to anything like the quality standards of the older guns. I don't care whether you're talking about guns, cars, or aircraft, nothing is made like it was 50 years ago. Pride in craftsmanship is not top consideration any more, price point is. In order to be competitive manufacturers have had to cut a lot of corners and we're seeing it in their quality. For those of you old enough to have lived during that period, can you ever recall hearing about a gun recall in the 50's or 60's?
 
Brand-spankin' new, no thank you.

I have a 1953 vintage Colt Woodsman I inherited. In the original box there is a target from the factory with the gun's serial number and inspector's signature proving the gun passed their accuracy standards, which were high at that time, before the gun was shipped out. Surely they still do this? I doubt it.
 
The four most-recent new purchases were:

Glock 19 - needed nothing

Walher P22 - ejected brass straight backwards, wouldn't strip the top round from a full or nearly-full magazine, trigger bar ears gouging up the underside of the slide. Had to perform several of the remedies from the P22 Bible and it now works fairly well.

Springfield EMP .40 S&W - Wouldn't lock back the slide on an empty magazine. Springfield sent me a slide stop pin cut with a different profile that fixed the problem 100% (wonder why they don't ship the pistol with the different slide stop?) Also some FTF early on, but I'm willing to accept a short break-in period on a new, tight gun.

Remington 870 - extractor bore/follower/spring had so much corrosion/crap in it that the extractor follower stuck in the compressed position, so the extractor was just flopping around and wouldn't reliably extract spent shells.
 
Reasons to buy a new gun:

1. Its a new design, and there aren't any used ones. Like Kel-Tec's bullpup.

2. You feel more comfortable with a warranty.

3. No one else has messed with it. Its not someone else's "lemon"

4. You are willing to pay something close to SRP.

5. Maximum possible lifespan--probably longer than your life with care.


Reasons to buy a used gun:

1. Its already been sighted in. :D

2. Problems are likely fixed (as you've seen)

3. Costs less.

4. No 4473 (if from private party)
 
"Three of my last four guns that I've bought new have required some kind of work to get them to function reliably"

Without knowing what brands and models you bought it's sort of hard to draw a conclusion. For instance, my last 2 new handguns were an FNP-45 USG and a Sig X-5 TAC TB and they work just fine.
 
For years I have treated new guns like used guns. I generally like to look at any gun before I buy it. This usually means I pay a little more money for a gun at a gunstore, but I am O.K. with that. I have passed on a number of new and used guns just because there are things I did't like about them.
 
I like buying new guns. I keep mine and don't mind paying the little extra
for something that will probably last a lifetime. Now, if I was to come across a used model (that I couldn't tell was used) that was exactly what I wanted, it would be fine. The problem I've encountered is that most used guns priced low enough to make a difference aren't in as good of shape as I would desire. If I could come across one of those "less than a box through them" guns for a signifcantly good deal I would be interested.

Firearms aren't like cars were they have huge depreciation simply because of age or being registered to somebody. Partially because they don't change them as much from year to year. Also, when they do it's a coin-toss if it's better or not. (However, guns are like cars because after they quit making certain ones they become collector's items.)

Plus, it's nice to have a lifetime warranty (althought it seems most companies honor them anyway) on something you own for a lifetime.
 
"Remington 870 - extractor bore/follower/spring had so much corrosion/crap in it that the extractor follower stuck in the compressed position, so the extractor was just flopping around and wouldn't reliably extract spent shells."

That's why you're supposed to clean the shipping grease/preservative off of them before you use them. Guns are packed to sit on the shelf or in a warehouse for may turn out to be years.


"Had to perform several of the remedies from the P22 Bible"

Sounds like a dud of a model if there is a bible of fixes.


The EMP is fixed and all is well. Maybe they just redesigned the part.

And the Glock works, so 3 of the 4 turned out alright with little effort.
 
That's why you're supposed to clean the shipping grease/preservative off of them before you use them. Guns are packed to sit on the shelf or in a warehouse for may turn out to be years.
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I'm use to a pre-shot cleaning on new guns, but I don't expect to have to do a detail strip to look for frozen parts (or parts that are about to freeze.) But I'll admit that the problem probably didn't exist when it left the factory.

As for the Walther, there are people that swear by them and have never had a problem. But mine seems to have had most of the common problems. I think that there's a little too much internal friction if the parts aren't exactly in-spec that can lead to cycling problems - that's been where I've had most of my problems with it.

The EMP was an easy fix, but it wasn't simply a matter of an out-of-spec part - the new slide stop has a completely different profile where it meets the plunger compared to the original, and mine wasn't one of the first .40 S&W EMPs.

I never said that my three problem guns were pieces of crap, or that their designs are inherently bad (although I think the Walther designers made some questionable decisions.)
 
Brand new (2009) Ruger KP90- Sent back to factory for...well... it was a jam-o-matic out of the box. And this is a gun with a rep for reliability.

'64 S&W M28- No problems. DID have a pretty nasty carbon ring in one chamber.

'52 S&W M1950- No problems

20+YO Taurus 669- No problems

I think the "it's already been fixed" idea has merit. My Ruger now runs OK and I fully expect it to last my lifetime. IF (unlikely) I ever sell it somebody else will get a good used gun.
 
I haven't bought many new handguns...

A Browning BDA .45 in 1980, a Ruger Blackhawk .45 in 1983, a Desert Eagle .44 in 1990, and S&W M28 in 1992, and a Ruger new Vaquero .45 in 2009.

All of the other dozens of handguns I have bought during the last 30 years have all been "used". Perhaps I have just been lucky, but I have never had a handgun that had a problem serious enough to require it being sent in for repairs, or even having to have parts replacement.
 
Most of the guns I have were bought used, just not much new stuff that strikes my fancy. As long as you know what to look for, you can avoid any lemons...or guns from Bubba's Butcher Shop.
 
"Tell me again why I buy new guns?"

Because you've read too many posts in the gunsmithing forum that start with, "I bought a Dremel." There are simply too many people fixing their own guns to take a chance on buying too many used guns. Unless you're good at fixing them. :)

JT
 
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