Tell me about the S&W Performance center and PC1911

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fourbore

New member
I been reading some disparaging remarks that the S&W Performance center is now pretty much just a stamp on an assembly line process. With little or no special hand fitting. To what extent is this true?

I am considering the PC 1911 for an informal target pistol. I have been all over the internet and I cannot find a ransom gun rest evaluation. Just the usual hoopla about better than me and looks cool. A good shooter does not need a ransom rest but he does need a solid bag on bench and the skills, not a list of excuses. The NRA may be a good source, I did not find a test from them.

I did recently get a PC revolver and one cylinder was out of time. I got it right on my own and the gun is accurate. I have 1.25 inch groups at 25 yards with my best hand loads and that is what I wanted. Can the PC1911 deliver that much? I dont expect Les Bauer guaranteed accuracy but then SW is not the price either.
 
I been reading some disparaging remarks that the S&W Performance center is now pretty much just a stamp on an assembly line process.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't this been the case for a very long time?

Assembly-line guns with some extra features that may or may not be hand-installed. Not unlike Colt's Custom Shop.
 
I had PC shield that would not cycle out of the box. I returned it to S&W 7 weeks later I got it back. It has been perfect since then. IMO they are not hand fit but have some features not available on regular S&W guns. Worth the difference in price "?". They are DEFINITELY not hand fitted guns.
 
Well, I'll follow this thread for my own curiosity of your findings.

I have 2 Smith and Wesson 1911 commanders.

One, from the 90s that's the 1911 PD and it's been 95% reliable. (Chip McCormick mags are a no-go).

Second, a 1911SC E- Series that I have yet to put through its paces. But I can't wait to do it already! I'll be posting a range report here when I do.
 
ok, that would explain my revolver experience. But, like you, end of the day it was a good gun.

I have a problem finding accuracy oriented reviews for many of the Match versions of 1911 pistols. It maybe that most models are just the same basic pistol with adjustable sights and no one wants to give a negative review. Or the reviews are being done by shooters who are used to evaluation of combat/carry or self defense 1911's.
 
That could very well be it.

I know I do not like ported guns* for self-defense. I revolver most of my firearms around self-defense only and don't like having range guns anymore.

I have 1911s because I'd love to one day carry them for self-defense. Need to take a class with Thunder Ranch already.


* I don't like ported barrels but don't mind compensated barrels.
 
Just reading the target pistol thread has got me thinking about another S&W PC gun that might me an excellent alternative to a PC1911 - the Smith and Wesson Performance Center 945. I believe they discontinued them a number of years ago, but they are out there floating around if you look. Very similar to a 1911, although maybe a little larger. Operates almost exactly like a 1911. Extremely accurate. I own one and it is one of my favorite guns. From the research I've done I've almost never heard anyone that doesn't like their 945. Only problem is that you're not going to be able to pick one up cheap because those of us that have them don't want to sell them.:)
 
I agree entirely, Houndog. My Model 945 is one of the best-built, reliable and accurate pistol of the many pistols I've ever owned. I've always described it as being a cross between a 1911 and a "Third Generation" Smith; keeping the best features of both designs in the same package. And I'm one of those people you referenced that has no plans of selling it. Ever. ;)
 
Hello fourbore, Many reports on current Performance Center products do not encourage, or persuade me to invest in current offerings. I've owned several Performance Center pistols, purchased prior to the PC concentrating on plastic pistols and revolvers. The PC pistols until about the early 2000s or so were very finely crafted, precisely fitted and finished. I've owned several. All just beautifully executed pistols. I do not get the impression that the PC is building to that quality standard today. It would seem that today's PC is just adding "features", kind of like the Colt Custom Shop, instead of concentrating on the precise fitting of the PC guns of yesteryear.

Were I looking for a quality 1911 in the same approximate price range as the PC guns, I'd have a look at the 945, and perhaps the Dan Wesson and STI before laying my money down.......ymmv

Absolutely agree with bac. He knows better than I.
 
These shoot as well if not better than my Dan Wessons, the barrels and slides are independantly numbered as they have been fitted together.

Wouldnt consider myself an expert only been shooting 35 yrs or so but thats my 2 cents

image.jpg
 
These shoot as well if not better than my Dan Wessons, the barrels and slides are independantly numbered as they have been fitted together.
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fire4606,

Have you done any bench rest shooting to evaluate the pistols or load development? If, so; could you share your experience? The target model with adj sights & blue grips.
 
^ I'd like to see that from a bench as well.
I love my S&W 1911s, but I love Dan Wesson as well.

I had put one on layaway after I got married and then decided to change it because I felt silly wanting to tote around a $2,000 1911. (Not saying that it is silly at all, just that it is for me.)
 
Find an old S&W 1911, send it to the Performance shop for upgrades :)

One thing folks are still raving about is how good redone PC stuff is.
Evidently they put all the old guys in that box and have them
deal with repairs & upgrades...beautifully!!
 
These shoot as well if not better than my Dan Wessons, the barrels and slides are independantly numbered as they have been fitted together.

Wouldnt consider myself an expert only been shooting 35 yrs or so but thats my 2 cents
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I totally disagree

I've shot and handled the new PC1911. It wasn't unlike their standard production 1911s, aside from some some cosmetic stuff and a larger extractor. I'm not saying its a bad gun, but its not what it was or even close. Of course, that's ok, because they don't cost much more either. You're simply paying for cosmetic work.

There's a big reason the Performance Center 1911s cost a good deal more 10-15 years ago than they do today. Smith & Wesson discontinued all their hand fit, high end pistols, such as the 952, 945, PC1911, and several others.

The PC is just a name now for what you see on the guns. Maybe a lighter trigger, different sights, slide cuts, etc. That's it.
 
I'm afraid that the demise of the Performance Center has been WHOLLY under-exaggerated. The Performance Center is gone, over, history, ceases to exist. It was lightning in a bottle and their best work still survives on the secondary market, but you had better be very well-funded.

Please look at bac1023's post #16 again. Every single pistol that he listed carried a new-MSRP over $2,000 except for the 845, and the 845 is the BEST of anything they made but the last ones were new in 1998.

You may get very attractive stocks and odd cuts in the slide, but you are absolutely not getting the real PC Limited pistols of the past. Evidence suggests the last of the last were built as late as 2011.

One may have a lifetime of shooting and a fantastic experience with the current "PC" 1911, but if the straight-up question is "is this current pistol as good as the older PC guns?" then the only experience that answers is experience with BOTH the incredible older pistols and these current ones. Should that include a robin's egg blue PC ported Shield? (vomit)

Also, as to the early question regarding Ransom Rest results... it may be worth noting that Ransom Rests have been out of production -far- longer than true Performance Center guns have.
 
OK good info on the PC shop. It is all about style or special features these days. But, to be honest, quality and hand work do cost more than I may be willing to pay for. I might be part of the problem here. Or hoping technology has boosted performance. Like spherical bushings or better barrels these days.

Let me ask another way. or I could post another question. First, my understanding is I can expect 2 or 3" inch groups of 5 shots at 25 yards from many (so-called) match grade factory 1911's. Those guns costing 1000 to 1500 actual retail. More like 1500. The pc1911 is 1400 for instance. I think the SIG match 1911 is a bit less. The Ruger is low but its a joke. Or a good start for a build. I was considering a Ruger with low initial expectation as a start to a project.

Then there are guns in the 2500 plus price range that are rumored to shoot 1" at 50 yards when all is just right.

Is there an option to split the difference and get a good solid 1" at 25 yard shooter in a medium (1500) price 1911 with good match grade sights and 3 pound trigger? I dont need cosmetics like special slide cuts or special colorful cut grips and magazines bumpers either. Where are the serious reviews?

The STI Trojan is 1500 sticker. I need a serious review. Then same for the PC1911, where is the serious review.

I was thinking about a SIG, but the only review I found was reporting 2" at 25 with best loads from a rest. A real review. Two inch is not what I am looking for.
 
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