Tell me about Hodgdon Titegroup.

Generally speaking I wouldn’t use tight group in any +P loading . However 38spl may be an exception because you can load it in 357mag so in the same generaly sized case you can load it hotter then 38+p . I think I’d still avoid the 158’s and go with 125’s in 38spl +p and Titegroup. I just feel there would be a bit more forgiveness with the lighter bullet .
 
Last edited:
I use it primarily for 380, 9mm, 38spl. and some 45acp. Only light and mid range loads. I never use it for heavy loads. It meters well and is economical. Very fast burning powder. Be careful when loading 38 and 45, easy to double charge in larger cases. Best wishes and be safe.
 
Thanks for all the comments. I've got a four pound jug coming in tomorrow.

I'll confine it to light and mid range loads. 9mm. 45 ACP. 44 special velocities in 44 mag cases. 38 special velocities in 357 cases.

Does that sound about right?
 
Metal god said:
Yep and no heavy for cartridge bullets . No 147's in 9mm , no 180's in 357 , I only go up to 200gr in 45acp etc .
Click to expand...
Why?

The Hodgdon web site has data for 230-grain projectiles in .45 ACP. The range from minimum to maximum is narrow, but no worse than for 200-grain projectiles. The same is true for 9mm, looking at 124-grain vs. 147-grain projectiles.
 
Originally posted by Aquila Blanca
The Hodgdon web site has data for 230-grain projectiles in .45 ACP
Click to expand...

Yep. I've got their latest reloading manual and their starting load for the 230 fmj is 4.4 grains TG for 744 fps and max load is 4.8 gr TG for 818 fps.

But even for the 44 mag, they show TG loads for a 355 grain bullet. 7 gr = 907 fps; 8.2 gr = 994 fps
 
Same reason most are hesitant to use Titegroup in the first place . My statement was not to say it can't be done only that IMHO you shouldn't or at least take caution when using heavy for cartridge bullets . It's very energetic and gets what I call squirrely when pushed hard . It's a burn rate thing really IMO , meaning it burns fast and heavy for cartridge bullets don't get out of the way fast enough . The large bore cartridges are more forgiving for sure because the farther the bullet travels down the bore the more volume of space behind it there is for those fast expanding gases to fill .

However there just seems to be less forgiveness once titegroup hits it's peak/max pressures and if that heavy for cartridge bullet refuses to get out of the way fast enough squirrely things start to happen .

EDIT : Go look at Hodgden's website at the 9mm 147gr load . there's a .4gr difference from start to max and only like a 75fps difference . That is a very small window to be playing with . That's the type of load you simple choose the middle charge because your throws can and will likely swing you into the low and high ends of the allowable charge range . No thank you , not going there with Titgroup . With other powders sure but Titegroup for me I’m staying at or below mid range charges especially in high pressure cartridge.
 
Last edited:
Yes, I understand. Most of my guns are older collectables and I generally shoot minimum loads in them anyway. But with the 45 ACP for example, I have standard power recoil springs in them (even in my Colt Gold Cup) and the load has to be stiff enough to allow for proper slide function.

Thanks for the input.
 
Metal god said:
Same reason most are hesitant to use Titegroup in the first place . My statement was not to say it can't be done only that IMHO you shouldn't or at least take caution when using heavy for cartridge bullets . It's very energetic and gets what I call squirrely when pushed hard . It's a burn rate thing really IMO , meaning it burns fast and heavy for cartridge bullets don't get out of the way fast enough . The large bore cartridges are more forgiving for sure because the farther the bullet travels down the bore the more volume of space behind it there is for those fast expanding gases to fill .

However there just seems to be less forgiveness once titegroup hits it's peak/max pressures and if that heavy for cartridge bullet refuses to get out of the way fast enough squirrely things start to happen .

EDIT : Go look at Hodgden's website at the 9mm 147gr load . there's a .4gr difference from start to max and only like a 75fps difference . That is a very small window to be playing with . That's the type of load you simple choose the middle charge because your throws can and will likely swing you into the low and high ends of the allowable charge range . No thank you , not going there with Titgroup . With other powders sure but Titegroup for me I’m staying at or below mid range charges especially in high pressure cartridge.
Click to expand...

Can you point me to pressure tested data for Titegroup that supports your claim? Thank you.
 
I use a lot of Titegroup. I just started using CFE pistol for the 10mm, but plinking loads with the 40, 38, 357, 44 mag are mostly TG.
 
For plinking loads, use what ever charge gives you the power you want. Because it is "easy to ignite" you can work down below the listed starting loads without worry.

In 2017 I worked up a low recoil 38 Sp load for my wife to shoot out of a very light revolver (LCRx). With a 110 gr bullet, it took getting down to 2.5 gr of TG before she was okay for target loads. I continue to use this load as other powders I tried did not meter well at the very low charges that gave about the same performance. I like using the LCRx for DA practice and use this load a lot but I also use a few "full Special" load each trip.

At the opposite end, I push to book max as my standard 9mm load and have used it for "target loads with more bang" in a magnum revolvers. For example, I have loaded to about a grain less (as best I can recall) than the 125 book max (Hodgdon says 7.5 gr does 1497 from a 10" barrel) in 357 magnums with a 120 gr powder coated cast bullet. The load worked well.

Here is some info from Quickload you can use as a reference for calculated velocities from a 6" gun.

Code: 
Cartridge          : .357 Magnum (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .358, 158, LEE 358-158-RF
Useable Case Capaci: 16.813 grain H2O = 1.092 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.555 inch = 39.50 mm
Barrel Length      : 6.0 inch = 152.4 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon TiteGroup

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms
-50.0   24     3.00    721     182    9329   1906    100.0    1.098
-41.7   28     3.50    795     222   12079   2176    100.0    0.979
-33.3   32     4.00    863     262   15156   2445    100.0    0.875
-25.0   36     4.50    927     301   18556   2712    100.0    0.794
-16.7   40     5.00    987     342   22276   2977    100.0    0.729
-08.3   44     5.50   1044     382   26321   3239    100.0    0.676

Code: 
Cartridge          : .357 Magnum (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .358, 125, LEE 358-125-RF
Useable Case Capaci: 20.103 grain H2O = 1.305 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.590 inch = 40.39 mm
Barrel Length      : 6.0 inch = 152.4 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon TiteGroup

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms
-50.0   20     3.00    737     151    6740   2027     99.3    1.111
-41.7   23     3.50    823     188    8685   2327    100.0    0.992
-33.3   26     4.00    900     225   10867   2605    100.0    0.899
-25.0   30     4.50    971     262   13281   2882    100.0    0.817
-16.7   33     5.00   1037     299   15922   3157    100.0    0.746
-08.3   36     5.50   1100     336   18790   3431    100.0    0.688
+00.0   40     6.00   1160     373   21883   3702    100.0    0.639
+08.3   43     6.50   1217     411   25206   3970    100.0    0.598
+16.7   46     7.00   1271     449   28760   4236    100.0    0.563

Code: 
Cartridge          : .44 Rem. Mag. (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .429, 214, LEE 429-214-SWC
Useable Case Capaci: 27.610 grain H2O = 1.793 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.610 inch = 40.89 mm
Barrel Length      : 6.0 inch = 152.4 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon TiteGroup

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms
-37.5   24     5.00    785     293    9930   2191    100.0    1.031
-31.3   27     5.50    834     331   11642   2380    100.0    0.961
-25.0   29     6.00    881     368   13477   2568    100.0    0.894
-18.8   31     6.50    925     406   15434   2755    100.0    0.836
-12.5   34     7.00    967     444   17512   2941    100.0    0.786
-06.3   36     7.50   1008     483   19710   3127    100.0    0.743
+00.0   39     8.00   1047     521   22029   3311    100.0    0.705
+06.3   41     8.50   1085     560   24468   3494    100.0    0.671
+12.5   43     9.00   1122     599   27028   3676    100.0    0.641
 
Last edited:
74A95 said:
So there's no reason to believe it.
Click to expand...
+1 on that . Never understood folks spreading speculation on the internet . This gets proven here everyday, some folks only know what they have read and if they believe what they read misinformation gets spread and even worse gets embellished and soon it's even more BS . Kinda like the guy at work farting , by the time the story reaches the third person he crapped his pants .
 
Maxwell Haus said:
+1 on that . Never understood folks spreading speculation on the internet . This gets proven here everyday, some folks only know what they have read and if they believe what they read misinformation gets spread and even worse gets embellished and soon it's even more BS . Kinda like the guy at work farting , by the time the story reaches the third person he crapped his pants .
Click to expand...

It's a perfect example of how 'myths' are born.
 
You can get a clue from the pressure data on Hodgdon's site for the 147-grain XTP in the 9mm Luger. The maximum pressure for Tightgroup is 83% of SAAMI MAP (33,000 CUP or 35,000 psi are the SAAMI MAPs for the two measuring systems). 83% is a lower percentage of MAP than the maximum for any other powder except 800X (82%). That means whoever did Hodgdon's testing saw individual rounds in their 10-shot sample vary enough to reach the MAP when the average was 83%. Hodgdon described this approach to assigning maximum pressures in one of their load manuals years ago. Other suppliers of load data follow it, which is why the maximum load pressures they give don't match the SAAMI MAP. Lyman's data is another example.

So we know there was above-average variability during Hodgdon's tests. When you keep in mind that loads test-fired using the SAAMI standard method are manipulated to keep the powder back over the flash hole (maximum pressure), it tells you that, despite claims the powder is position insensitive, this powder will probably get more variable when you add the change in case position into the mix. That is easily tested with a chronograph. Tip the muzzle up to put powder over the flash hole before lowering it to level to fire it to measure velocity. Run enough that way to get a solid standard deviation. Next, with the same load, alternate between firing that way and first pointing the muzzle down to get powder over the bullet base before coming up level to fire. See if that results in a higher velocity SD. If it does, the pressure is varying even more.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top