Ted Nugent on FoxNews

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I'm new, brand new, to both sides of this so hopefully no one can accuse me of being a 'plant' or a 'ringer'. Although I had been aware of Ted's music 'forever' and vaguely aware of his involvement with gun rights/hunting, I'd never really taken a close look - that is until yesterday. I had the opportunity to meet him at a book signing in Fort Worth, Texas. I have come away from the experience with a tremendous amount of respect for him as a man and a human being. Although I do understand the logic and reasoning behind those of you who have taken issue with appearance, I think that to focus on that issue is to miss the point of what (admittedly in my opinion) Ted Nugent is "about". He is about freedom. He is about the kind of freedom that calls a person to take responsibility for keeping that freedom alive, the kind of freedom that is self-validating and does not need or want the approval of a single other person in order to exist, the kind of freedom that extends those same rights to all others.
To ask him to change who he is so that he might "look better for the camera" would be essentially asking him to give up part of his personal freedom - something I do not believe that he would ever ask or expect of anyone else. Isn't that what we're all really trying to preserve anyway, the freedom to choose for ourselves about issues concerning guns and hunting?
 
it makes me sick to think that someone would put down ted who has went out of his way to protect out gun rights.thats like biting the hand that feeds you.and your trying to say that just because he wears camo to a debate we should find someone else to defend our rights?it doesnt matter what he was dressed in what matters is the knoledge he possesses about guns and how we need them and his abilty in debating.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by K80Geoff:
I seriously doubt anybody is about to ask me to sit on one of these TV shows to debate. But if i did go I would damn sure prepare to counter the lies of the HCI/VPC crowd.

I stand by my comments, Ted wasn't prepared to counter Beard. We can't just keep repeating the same hackneyed comments about gun ownership being a right. We have to counter them with solid arguments and call them when they lie.

We need to use the same tactics that the Anti's use.

And whether you like it or not, camo clothing has a negative connotation to many people. It might not be right, it might be prejudice, but it is true and we had better learn quickly to improve our image. Image in this society is everything, first impressions will stick with you forever, particularly with women, the group that we need to reach.

Thanks for all the comments from Teds fan club, nice to see new members on this forum. :)

Geoff Ross

PS I admit I am not a fan of his music, but I like his courage in speaking out for RKBA. [/quote]

Well, I am female and what he wore had no impression on me whatsoever--in fact, other than the cap, I didn't even NOTICE what he was wearing until I saw it nitpicked over on this board. It is what he SAID that I paid attention to and I thought he was very eloquent and armed with facts.
 
I thought Ted did well, as he usually does. Should he have worn a suit? No, it would be out of character for him. However, we _all_ have to be cognizant of how we look when we are representing the RKBA crowd. At public meetings, I wear a suit, and urge others to at least wear a sport shirt. Why? Because the cameras are always going to gravitate toward the guy in the sloppy sweatshirt with the "nuke 'em all" hat on. This is politics, and politics is image and perception. Impressions trump facts. Sad, but true. So deal with it.

Dick
Want to send a message to Bush? Sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/monk/petition.html and forward the link to every gun owner you know.
 
I'll have to agree with the "appearance" people here as well.

Let's put a hypothetical in here - let's say Ted had shown up in Klan robes and hood (regardless of any actual membership). Do you think that it would have helped or hurt his case?

People make snap judgements based on looks - it's been proven time and time again.

Appearances count. Why do you think that before Police cruiser video, so many DUI scumbags got off time and time again? Because, by the time their court case shows up, they are sober looking, in suits, with their family behind them, instead of sloppy drunk with no T-shirt and one shoe, attacking the officers. Put it on video, and they can't fight it.

In our battle for our rights, we need to take EVERY advantage that we can get. We need people looking like housewives, shop owners, executives, etc. By giving the anti's "freebies", we wind up letting them control the fight, not us. It makes their job easier.

The sooner we start cutting through the lies and using brute force to win the arguements, the better off we'll be. Personally, I'd like nothing more than to see a Pro Gun Murder / Rape Survivors group get on national TV and go head to head against HCI.

With quotes like "If I had been able to get a gun, I wouldn't have been raped or my girlfriend / husband killed, Thanks New York!" and "How would firearms registration kept me from being brutalized?" we'd have a lot easier time. Confront them with REALITY.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com
www.bladeforums.com
 
v <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spark:
I'll have to agree with the "appearance" people here as well.

Let's put a hypothetical in here - let's say Ted had shown up in Klan robes and hood (regardless of any actual membership). Do you think that it would have helped or hurt his case?

People make snap judgements based on looks - it's been proven time and time again.

Appearances count. Why do you think that before Police cruiser video, so many DUI scumbags got off time and time again? Because, by the time their court case shows up, they are sober looking, in suits, with their family behind them, instead of sloppy drunk with no T-shirt and one shoe, attacking the officers. Put it on video, and they can't fight it.

In our battle for our rights, we need to take EVERY advantage that we can get. We need people looking like housewives, shop owners, executives, etc. By giving the anti's "freebies", we wind up letting them control the fight, not us. It makes their job easier.

The sooner we start cutting through the lies and using brute force to win the arguements, the better off we'll be. Personally, I'd like nothing more than to see a Pro Gun Murder / Rape Survivors group get on national TV and go head to head against HCI.

With quotes like "If I had been able to get a gun, I wouldn't have been raped or my girlfriend / husband killed, Thanks New York!" and "How would firearms registration kept me from being brutalized?" we'd have a lot easier time. Confront them with REALITY.

Spark

[/quote]
With all due respect, a Klan robe is a far cry from a cammie shirt.
 
Fan club? We all seem to be in agreement that presenting the facts is our best line of defense. If the rest of your facts are a smuddled as that one, we're doomed. I encourage you to check out our little campfire at HTTP://www/tnugent.com . Stop by and stay awhile. You will see that we are far from a fan club. Yes Ted founded TNUSA / TNWB, he is the head man, and one hell of a spokesman. But we are not a "fan club." None of us joined to get autographs or back stage passes. Every TNUSA member is dedicated to fighting for our gun / hunting rights. We stand and deliver. I have never been involved with a more active organization. I also know of no "celebrity" who takes the time to communicate with his supporters on a regular basis the way Ted does (almost daily.) Check out the site, I think you'll be surprised, especially if you thought TNUSA was a fan club.
 
Do you consider the NRA a Charlton Heston Fan Club??? TNUSA is not a fan club and we're not talking about Nuge music. We are talking about protecting our Constitutional Second Amendment right to bear arms. Ted Nugent gives of himself completely to get this message across for ALL of us. I don't care if he shows up in a pink tutu--it's the MESSAGE that is important and he gets it across better than anyone I've seen.
 
Sorry--the server was hanging up and my post went on 3 times. I tried to delete two, but it says only leaders can do so, even though it said elsewhere that the person who posts can delete. So, if one of the leaders would delete 2 I would appreciate it. Thanks.

[Done, Val. LawDog]

[This message has been edited by LawDog (edited August 25, 2000).]
 
V, it's called illustrating a point. The media has made it a point of demonizing anything having to do with firearms, militia, RKBA, assault weapons, etc. To them, we're the equivalent of criminals, Klan members, etc. You own a gun - you must be a member of the militia or a redneck, or a criminal or something equally "bad"

I'll wager a guess and say 9 out of 10 people have no earthly clue who Ted Nugent is. All they see is "Oh, he's got long hair and is wearing camoflage, he must be one of those militia types!!!!"

Remember, if people were smart, we wouldn't have Jerry Springer or Rosie on the air.

Thus, again, why give the anti's a freebie? Why present to the audience this face when you could come on looking your best? It's called "establishing a rapport" - Ted doesn't have to impress us by wearing camo, we're already on his side! What he has to do is work on the audience, or the people out there, and the best way to do that is to show that he's just like everyone else - Joe SixPack. Hearts and Minds and all that.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com
www.bladeforums.com
 
Spark, I never even SAW his hair. He had a cap on and not once did his hair show. He had on a cap and looked clean cut to me. The shirt didn't even register, so I have to wonder how many people, other than the ones here, really even noticed. Perhaps I was more interested in what he had to SAY rather than his attire.

The anti's are probably having a ball if they're reading this because they'll see infighting among us. We're all on the same side here. United we stand, divided we fall.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong spark, but "Joe Sixpack" is more likely to be wearing camo than a suit and tie. I think Ted's presentation is dead on. I personally believe that the average citizen is sick and tired of hearing guys in empty suits spew political jargon in monotone. Ted's image, his passion, his message hit home with the average Joe. When Joe Workaday sees Ted on TV, he sees a bit of himself, something no brooks brothers suit can accomplish. I have to wonder if the real issue here is your own elitist attitude. Let me address that as simply as possible. If you consider us all to be equal, then we're on the same page, if you think you're better than me, you're a piece of crap in my book. Incidentally, average citizens on the street get to here our side of the argument, presented factually and eloquently, from a man wearing camo every day of the week. I know, because they are hearing it from me. You can and should be doing the same thing, regardless of what you are wearing.
 
Support for gun control is intertwined with classism, racism, sexism, and so forth. The undecided masses fear people who look like Ted Nugent. Someone who seems to represent all the things they fear about gun owners arguing against gun control is likely to have a muted effect at best, and a quite likely a negative one. Appearances matter, and Nugent's dubious past and history of inappropriate comments don't help either.
 
Val.....when you double or tripple post,
just use the edit icon , the one with the yellow pencil & note pad , to edit out the content of the repeat posts which you can either replace with other text or a [sorry,double post edited out] message. This saves the host computer 3 or 4k storage space.

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About Ted Nuggent;;;
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Ted , Thanks for Representing Us!! Keep it up!! I wear camo too, but not if I were
going on tv.

I truely hate to say it, but camo does scare the already frightened sheeple, yet more.

I have been scared by my first impression of a scraggly haired scum bag wearing camo and then, I look in a mirror
and see another scraggly haired guy wearing camo; well, at least I'm not a scum bag ; but others seeing me dont know that and are scared also.

Yes ,the camo clothes are socially unacceptable and scare people even though
they should not. Hells bells, you would do better wearing assault black instead of camo.

Assault black associates you with prehaps government swat teams or civilian assigination teams but denotes a highly deciplined soldier and therefore commands more respect while camo may be more associated with terrorists & millitias.

This is how the tv media has conditioned
us to think and respond , even when we intellectually know better.

So my feeling is that Ted did an excellent job and I should like to see him do it again , but next time wear brown shooting cloths or black assault wear or
blaze orange hunting wear or just plain clothes.

And for you detractors, remember that when you are on a anti-gun liberal tv show,
the playing field is not level---the anti gunners have all the advantage as well as the help of the editors and government centures and the biased anti gun talking heads; all this is arrayed against you in order to keep you from getting a inteligent and coherant message out. They are all trying to make the pro-gun advocate look the redneck fool.It is not easy to trimuph against such a stacked deck; I remember seeing them shout down ,railroad and remove Wayne LaPierre, who is experienced in dealing with these government nwo minion tv
talking heads.

When Wayne was in danger of making a coherant point for our side that they could not counter, they ganged up on him instead, shouted him down and cut to a commercial and
after the commercial, Wayne was disappeared
from the tv set for the remainder of the show.

From this I learned that when you are on tv , you must play by their rules, even when they are biased, dis honest and unfair or risk removal from the set.

So try to keep this in mind before critizing a pro-gun advocate too harshly.

Did any one consider that Ted may have been asked to wear camo at his appearance by the tv people??
 
I see this post has generated quite a stir, which is good.

We have to remember that in this day and age rights are what the majority of the sheeple think they are. I may not like this and you may not either, but that is reality.

Most people have not read the Constitution, and only thier ignorant respect for it keeps it in place. I see this all the time. walk around and ask people about thier constitutional rights and see how many of them know about them. A majority of the people in this country thought what Janet Reno did to that family who had Elian Gonzales was okay. THAT BOTHERS ME.

We need to win this fight and we need to use the best tools for the job. This is war and we will be given no quarter. If we are not able to take a clear look at what is going on then we will lose.

if you are intent on using an AD Hominum attack, becuase you disagree with what I or another member has said, then I don't know what to say to you. I will not engage you in dialogue becuase it is a waste of time, like talking to an ANTI
 
Since the other Nugent thread was closed, I will make a quik comment here instead of starting a new thread. I can understand how some of you feel when Nuge was interviewed wearing cammies. I can also see where Mike was coming from. Everyone knows, or should know that Ted Nugent is a rock star. Rock stars do not normally go around wearing suit and ties. Nugent is who he is and we can't expect him to act like someone he is not just because he is being interviwed on television.

I know we need to appeal to the soccer moms and those in the middle, but according to recent poll, we are in big trouble with teenagers even more. I say let Nugent do his thing wearing whatever he wants. Maybe he can get through to some of the zombies that the public school system puts out. :)

Joe

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NRA Joe's Second Amendment Discussion Forum

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Thanks for the tip Ernst!! I was trying to delete.

And Law Dog--thanks!! I appreciate your help.

[This message has been edited by val (edited August 25, 2000).]
 
All of the comments here and on the closed post only serve to validate my initial comments. The debate has focused on what Ted wore and his apperaance.

How many can remember what he said. Appearances do count in our current culture. As far as the dialogue on the show the Anti came across in a better light than Ted. The anti was polished in his delivery (even if they were mostly lies). His appearance was polished (neatly trimmed hair or rug?, trimmed beard , probably covered with pancake makeup) . He looked like someone you should trust, and soccer moms are responsive to this.
He talked in a manner that made him look like an authority. Ted became emotional and stumbled over his words. Ted became defensive.

Ted is probably a great guy, and I realize many of you love him and will defend him. But he came across as the looser in the debate.

Perhaps he was set up. I wouldn't put it past the program's director to deliberately make him look like a bubba. The piece on Mr Mauser that preceeded the debate certainly did not put gun ownership in a favorable light.

Once again, I have no animosity towards Ted, he is a great guy and very courageous to stand up for RKBA.

OT:

One of the great things about TFL is that we can disagree and debate and not resort to personal attacks. If you disagree with me than I welcome your comments, but leave the vulgar stuff for some other board. :)


Geoff Ross
 
Having seen the program with my wife, I was appalled by the blatant demagoguery of Paula Zahn and her producers in setting up the piece with Columbine, Columbine, Columbine; then moving to the debate. I mean, why not frame the debate first using arguments from both sides, and then letting the combatants "go at it?" BIAS, BIAS, BIAS!

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Safe shooting - PKAY
 
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