Taurus vs. Smith and Wesson

Now Jack, that's much too logical for a message board.

I've been making that same argument on various boards for years, though possibly not as well stated.

-- Sam
 
Jack

Do we see a trend here vis a vis people that are continuing to bash AN ENTIRE MAKERS PRODUCT LINE because they happened to get a lemon?
Just because you get a sub par gun from ANY maker does not mean that the makers entire product line is junk.
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Nice post Jack. :D My most recent lemon was a Ruger SP101. My Ruger GP101 is a great gun, and I just ordered a Ruger P345D. I happen to know there are allot of SP101 owners who love their gun, rightfully so!!! :)
 
Logical?

So I guess what the logical thing to say to all those in uniform and civilians whose gun failed them at a critical moment is " Hey you screwed up! You bought our gun and trusted us." A jam,malfuction,or parts failure is a minor pain on the firing line and during competition but it is a total disaster in self defense or combat. I broke a firing pin in a Glock, KT P-32 jams with HP, SP101 broke springs,PPK broke it's mag release,M-16 jammed only with 20 round mags, and so on. These problems did not make them bad guns, I still recommend them. The problem was easily solved and the gun was out of action for a few seconds. But when your gun comes apart at 520 rounds it brings a whole new definition to Break in period. The logical thing for Taurus to do was to pull the gun just like Kel-tec pulled the P-40 from the market and make the design changes and not just say it was bad polymeyer. Kel-Tec pulled their gun because of jamming problems and most shooters could not handle the recoil according to their official statement. You stick with your plastic hand grenades- I'll take the comfort of steel-it makes a better club also.
 
Just about every maker or manufacturer lets loose a lemon or two. It happens to the best of them.
Other than makers of well known ill repute and of course, S&W, I don't know of any big name makers who KNOWINGLY put out a crap product (remember that S&W disposable .380?)
Most companies have engineers who want to produce a good product. Most have employees who want to produce a good product.
But sometimes crap happens. An employee who should have been fired years ago gets kept on because he sticks his nose up the right hind end.
Somebody in management undermines the folks in production with his cheapskatery, hoping to get a big bonus on the "savings."
Somebody in management makes flat out retarded decisions (Colt).
This stuff happens.
This is also why I seldom jump on the "gun of the month" club, and stick with stuff that has a track record.
Its also why I look aghast at things like S&Ws two peice barrel system and MIM parts.....
When you just absolutely positively have to have whatever the latest and greatest is so you can get bragging rights as the new kid on the block, just remember, the bugs most likely HAVE NOT BEEN WORKED OUT....and Generation I is often going to be the generation that makes or brakes a product.
Thats why my guns are mostly made of metal, not plastic, and generally forged or extruded metal at that.
I learned my lesson with the .40 caliber HUSP.
In theory this was the greatest combat handgun to come down the pike with DA SA trigger, cocked and locked capability and lighter than a CZ -75.
In reality, it was an innacurate POS that is marginally adequate as a paperweight.
 
Taurus wheelguns have no history of failure.
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I guess you mean there are no widespread catastrophic failures of them. The only Taurus revolver I have handled had a forcing cone that was split so wide that it binded the cylinder shut. Admittedly, this was one of their older models, the current guns may have improved.
 
Jack:

Can you lighten up a bit? :rolleyes:

I never said EVERY TAURUS FIREARM EVER BUILT WAS A POS! I simply related my firsthand experience with the two Taurus samples I owned - BOTH OF WHICH were substandard.

Perhaps I beat the odds and got your professed "lemons"... TWICE.

I'm not telling anyone what to buy or not to buy. All I've done is given an honest account of MY experience so that others can use that experience to what ever degree they deem appropriate. My decision, based upon my personal objective evidence, coupled with experiences of others I've know and incidents that have been related to me is to refrain from buying further Taurus products. You and everyone else are free to discount or ignore that experience to your heart's content.

Once again I'll state, if sharing that experience paints me as a Taurus-basher in your book then so be it.

stellarpod
 
Silly Little Tribes...

...don't forget that SIGs rust, 1911's jam, USP's break firing pins, Delta Elites crack their frames, and Berettas break their locking blocks right before putting the back half of the slide through your bridgework.

The faster most folks realize that all guns suck, the happier they'll be. -Tamara

:)

With respect to Tamara, and best regards to all.

Steve
 
Happy taurus 608SS4 owner...

All.

I see no problem buying a $400 gun (like mine) and spending $150-$200 on a good action job and having it worked over. Even a $580 revolver like a brand new 686 will bennefit.

The only smith guns that don't need a trip to the gunsmith out of the box are the performance center units.

If it shoots fine and the price it right, get what you need, not what others tell you to buy.
 
I have seen exactly two forcing cone problems in decades of shooting everything under the sun.
One was an S&W M 19 that never had anything BUT full power loads shot through it for over ten years.
The other was a gun by another maker in the old .357 maximum which was notoriously rough on guns, no matter who made them.

Buying a gun can be like a crap shoot, no matter who makes it. In theory, I have been lucky over the years, only purchasing one real dog (Colt Jammamatic). In reality the next purchase I make might turn out to be a lemon. I have one gun that has a lousy trigger pull and is innacurate, but I dont consider that a lemon or a POS, just a badly executed attempt at what should have been a better design, chambered in a cartridge that is notoriously innacurate.
Every maker lets loose a bad example from time to time. Notice that when Kimbers had a lower production run there were less complaints than aftre they hit it big. Taurus really sells in volume, so the chance you may get a Taurus or a Smith with a problem is just simple mathmatics.


>>I guess you mean there are no widespread catastrophic failures of them. The only Taurus revolver I have handled had a forcing cone that was split so wide that it binded the cylinder shut. <<<
 
Taurus revolvers DO have a history of failures due to spotty quality control. I've had 5, one was back to the factory more than it was here. (Improper barrel alignment) another blew up on first use due to a suspected forceing cone issue( There is a pic posted here somewhere.) Of the other 3, two were fine and one wore itself sloppy in a few hundred rounds. IMHO a 40% satisfaction rate is not reasuring.
 
Tacoma

IMHO a 40% satisfaction rate is not reasuring.
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That is true, however that figure only represents your experience. :) I wonder what the overall Taurus failure rating for wheel guns is world-wide??? :confused:
 
Your absolutely correct. I'm not making a case that Taurus has a worldwide 40% satisfaction rating. I'm just stating that they have historicly had more than their share of reported issues. My experience and research supports that. On the flip side I have never had one S&W or Ruger revolver ( of 50+) have to go back to the factory. (Not saying that's a statistic either but both #'s are significant if your revolver shopping.)
 
Back when Bangor Punta still owned S&W when the model 29 was their top of the line gun, I went into a gunshop on Industry Lane in Lexington Ky run by two friends of mine.
They just got in a new shipment of guns, including a 6 inch 29.
We opened the box and checked the gun out. Suddenly, Ernie said, hold up!
He looked and sure enough there was NO yoke retaining screw in the gun (the screw above the trigger on the frame).
I can only imagine what would have happened had somebody in some dimly lit store bought that gun and run out and shot it without looking it over carefully.
Mind you, in those days when you would shoot full power ammo through a 29, you often had to tighten that screw at the end of a day of shooting.
Once, I saw the cap on the ejector rod on another makers gun come off.
These things happen.
Every maker lets loose a product or two that should never have left the plant. If you got four bad ones out of 10 thats not 40 percent. Thats just 40 percent of the ones you have encountered.
Over the years, I have shot literally more than a hundred Taurus guns. The only one that had a 'problem' was an electroless nickle 66 that had a minor finish problem ( a streak around the cylinder that did not affect the guns performance).
I have fired a lot more Smiths and Colts and I can assure you that the overall dissapointment rate was a bit worse, But then again, I have fired a lot more of them. Does that mean that Colt made junk? Or Smith? No. It just means that any maker of any mechanical device is occcassionaly going to produce a sub par example. One gun I own that is now so expensive I could never replace it, has been a major dissapointment. And my arse is getting chewed good on another thread right now because I had the temerity to complain about it on a thread!
Look at various forums whenver their is a Glock Kaboom. The Glockaholics come out ranting and raving about how it never happened to their Glock, the person is obviously a liar, all Glocks are perfect, etc.
 
Interesting thread. Seems like I've stumbled into a pocket of Taurus fans. No wish to argue here gents. I'm just passing on MHO. FWIW, I started as a Taurus fan in the late 80's . I just got disapointed along the way. I should also note that the 5 I owned were all pre-98 if that makes a difference. Still I'll defend that 3 bum samples out of 5 guns leaves me 40% satisfied. ( Do the math)
If anyone wants to buy a Taurus, they are welcome.

BTW, here is my last one. It was a blast!
album_pic.php


Done, and will not publish this pic again.
 
Tacoma

That looks like my old PT-145 only mine exploded downward. With me it's how Taurus handled the whole problem. Sure they gave me a new gun but it took a legal threat. No we're sorry you got hurt, no repayment of $70.00 Fedex shipping, no nothing. If anyone wants to truely feel the experience then I'll tell you what. I will meet anyone with a PT-145. You hand me the gun, I will stuff a M-80 in the magazine well and light it. Then I will hand back to you. When it blows up in your hand I will drive off and pretend not to know you until your attorney calls. Then instead of giving your money back I give you another gun only with an unlit cherry bomb and say let's try again. That's Taurus customer service for you. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me! THE END!
 
Tacoma

I hope you didn't get hurt!!! :o

I'm not really a Taurus fan...I have owned several (beginning two years ago), and have never had any problems with them...When I do step up, and defend Taurus, or any manufacturer, it's when folks who have never owned, or fired a Taurus product posts something like...I have heard the quality is terrible, or the finish is awful (Or, something like that), without qualifying their remarks. :rolleyes:

My last, and very recent reject was a Ruger SP101. Right out of the box, the hammer wouldn't pull all the way back on the 4th and 5th rounds. Something was rubbing for sure. I took it to a GS twice, and he couldn't fix it...I have 3 other Rugers. A GP-100, P94DSS15, and P345SS, all great guns. :D

You could say my failure rate with Ruger is 25%. Or, with Ruger wheel guns 50%. And, in fairness, all of the guns I've owned through the years, hell most of them I can't remember. I do know I owned a great Ruger Single Action Six about 40 years ago. I also know that if I had one go off in my hand, as you did, I doubt if I'd buy another... :mad:
Here's the fit and finish on my PT92AR. That's me holding the gun!!!
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Naw, I (very luckily) didn't get hurt. ( I was all alone at the range and had driven my motorcycle. Good thing!)Just a little shaken. :eek: First thing I did was drop the gun and check my face/head for blood. For the record, Taurus eventually replaced it with a new 85 but it wasn't a painless process. ( I sold that 85 NIB) FWIW, I've had mxed luck with Rugers too. Seems like older rugers have better fit and finish that newer ones. My last ne Ruger (SP101) needed ALOT of TLC to make it right. Also FWIW, I've owned planty of other revolvers from Charter arms and Rossies to H&R's. I don't rule anything out ( or badmouth) any brand until personal experience dictates.

p.s. Have to admit that's a nice looking gun you have there.
 
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