Taurus PT111 worth buying?

N

notbubba

New member
A friend from work is thinking of buying a Taurus PT111 9mm as a CCW.
I know a little about Taurus Revolvers but I don't know anything about Taurus pistols.
This would be his first semiauto.
What do you all think of this handgun?
If not a Taurus than what 9mm would you recomend in the same price range?
 
I have seen with my own eyes what a b!tch this weapon is to field strip, and put together. I would tell your friend to get the Ruger P95. It carries quite comfortably in something like the Bianchi 7/7L pancake holster. This is what I carry mine in. I have no problem concealing it. :) Also, the take down is child's play. Standard capacity mags are still available for a reasonable price. :D
 
Or, if your friends is REALLY intent on the PT111 because of its size and weight, tell him to look at the Kel-Tec P11, the gun from which the PT111 was probably derived.

The P11 is slightly lighter, similar in all other respects (except that it has a hidden hammer instead of a striker), is easier to field strip, etc. and you get GREAT support from Kel-Tec customer service, if you need it. In the past year or two, the quality of Kel-Tecs have been rapidly improving, from mediocre (a few years ago) to darned good, straight out of the box.

Most importanly, the P-11 is a lot cheaper than the PT111.

The only other 9mm guns that is anywhere near as concealable is the Kahr P-9...
 
Actually, the Kahr MK9 is the most concealable 9mm.

I had a Taurus PT111, and although I sold it, it actually was a pretty good gun - I never had any feed problems, and was accurate once I got used to it.
 
The PT111 (Millennium) was the only gun that I've gotten rid of in the past five years. I bought it new and could never get it to function reliably; it would jam, stovepipe, or something about every third round. My second time at the range it locked up tight on a fired shell and I couldn't get it to extract, (neither could anybody else at the range). I sent it to Taurus and explained the problems I was having & they took care of the jam but it still wasn't reliable, even though they said they "fixed & tested" it ... It would now fail to feed or stovepipe about once every magazine and no amount of work fixed the problem. For reliable carry I now use a Kahr MK40, S&W 638, or G27. They cost more, but I can trust them.
 
My first experience with the PT111 was the slide got stuck halfway on the slide during reassembly. The dealer and his gunsmith spent hours trying to unstuck and reassemble. This included hours on the phone with Taurus, who continually denied there was any problem even after the gun was sent back to them several times.

Whenever I see one at a shop or show I ask the dealer to take it down and reassemble for me. Similar experiences ensue.

Before you buy one I would suggest you make sure you have the dealer demonstrate it can be put back together. I think it would be a nice gun if Taurus would fix the problems.
 
I second the recommendation for the Keltec P11, I've heard too many negative things about the PT-111 from people that actually own and hate them. I'm sure there are lots of them that function fine, but I doubt I could work up much confidence...
 
I just sold my PT-111. There were a lot of things I liked about this gun, but after having to send it back to Taurus for the second time, I just had too many doubts about it. The trigger broke within the first 60 rounds (The current issue of Combat Handguns describes a similar situation). After it's return it did well for about 800 rounds. It then began failing to extract. It went back to Taurus again. I test fired it with 100 rounds. It only failed to extract once, but that was enough for me to get rid of it. I just didn't feel like I could rely on it. Most everyone will tell you the trigger is really lousy (very mushy). On a postive note, I really liked the size and style. It fed every type of ammo I gave it including hollowpoints. As far as disassembly, I only struggled with it the very first time. After you do it once it becomes very easy to reassemble. You just need to make sure you keep the barrell pressed down until it locks in place as you push the slide back on. I think the gun has potential, but until Taurus gets the bugs worked out I'd probably recommend something else.
 
I own a PT111, and the trigger is absolutely awful!

It has been reliable for the hundreds of rounds I've fired, but it sits unused most of the time now. It is not a pleasant gun to shoot, with that rough heavy trigger.

Paid $75 for mine NIB, and that's about what it's worth in my opinion! :)

Bill
 
I like my Taurus PT-111, it works everytime I take-it to the range. I shot over 1500rds of 115gr. CCI Blazer ammo, 300rds PMC 9mm, and 100rds of Wolf 9mm ammo. And she keeps on banging and spitting away everytime, just do not force her and she will work. Many people have problems with the PT-111 due to, that they load up fast velocity 9mm ammo(Hydroshock, +P ammo, ect,.), but there are lemons out there; and not just Taurus but every firearm brand know to man has a few batches of lemons. I also have a Kel-Tec P-11, she is also an amazing firearm. The only thing that differs is the price tag and the name brand and were it comes from. Either way you cannot go wrong. Later.
 
Thank You All!

After much research here I ordered a P11 and P32 yesterday.
As I wait for delivery I continued searching for discussions here on both of these and other superlight 9mm and smaller CCW weapons in order to feel better about my choice. Then the newest issue of American Rifleman showed up with its review of the Taurus Milliennium PT111 and mention of its Titanium clone. This resulted in that sinking feeling that I had screwed up!:confused: Doubts then entered my mind about the toy" KelTec versus a Taurus. :(
I rationalized that the striker in the Taurus was inferior to the KelTec and the locked breech of the latter was superior to whatever the Taurus had. And then there was the reports of larger cap mags (used S&W or otherwise) working in the P11 to yield 12+1. Around and around I went battling heartburn and doubt. I felt sick.

Then this thread was uncovered with another search for Taurus Millennium discussions.

Whew!!!

BOY DO I FEEL BETTER NOW!
THANKS FELLOW FL'ers!:D
 
Solitar,

You will feel even better, if you browse the current gun mags on the news stand, for an article on the P11 Kel-Tec! I don't remember which magazine it was, but had to be one of the regulars like Guns & Ammo, Shooting Times, Reloading, or Handguns, as I don't even browse the others.

The gun writer was able to shoot incredible groups with the P11, from a sandbag rest! The best was something less than 2 inches at 25 yards, if I recall. :eek:

Bill
 
I bought a PT-140 a while ago, took it to the range and it jammed on the third round, and each subsequent round, of every magazine I tried to fire. The rounds were getting stuck on the small vertical flat area immediately below the feed ramp. I could turn the gun upside-down while pulling the slide back to get the round to drop out, but it happened with nearly every round starting with round three, every time. I tried literally every major brand of ammo on the market in hopes of finding something that would feed.

The first eight weeks it spent in the Taurus repair shop were completely useless -- it was returned to me in EXACTLY the same condition as I sent it to them. It was as though they had just waited eight weeks, repackaged it, and sent it back. So I called and griped and their customer service person had FedEx come back to my house to pick it up, and they put a "rush" on it this time.

Well, I just got it back last week and took it to the range a few days ago. For the first time, I was able to fire a complete magazine without a jam. But the slide still doesn't "feel" right. I'm not sure I have the vocabulary to describe what it's doing now, so stick with me. You know how when you fire a normally-functioning semi-auto, the whole action occurs in one motion? Well, this one doesn't. After I pull the trigger, I feel the recoil and then a split-second later I feel the slide slamming shut (don't know if that makes sense).

Anyway, I agree with the sentiments of the former PT-111 owners who say the trigger sucks. It feels like it may be dragging on something and has a horribly long pull in addition to the 12# weight. It is NOT fun to fire. In fact, it rather hurts.

I intend to trade this thing off as soon as possible and get something useful. I don't trust it, and I don't like firing it. I honestly have less than 100 rounds through the thing (50 from my lunch-hour test at the range this week, and probably much less than 30 on my previous attempts to make it work).

Off-topic: Anyone have any clue what percentage of a NIB gun I should get for it? (I have an extra 10-round mag)...

Acme
 
Also look into the new PT 145 in 45 ACP. I picked one up the other day, and it's actually a nice piece. The kick isn't bad at all, and it's a lot of firepower for such a small gun. The accuracy wasn't bad either. No problem at all with reliability (only 100 rounds, but so far, so good) The trigger is a bit heavy, but much shorter on the PT-145 than I remember on the 9MM version. Didn't have any trouble at all taking it apart and putting it back together. Taurus has clearly made some improvements.
 
Acme,

Call Taurus. They may have some idea what to look for.

If I had to guess, I'd say the slide is binding. Perhaps they installed the wrong recoil springs? Mine has dual springs, one inside the other, and I can see where they might bind at full compression, if not perfectly sized.

PT111 pistols are going for $299 to $339 at local gun shows. I didn't ask if they were new guns, as I have absolutely no interest in owning another Taurus! :mad:

Steve,

Happy to hear that Taurus made improvements to the Millennium series. They are a nicely built and well finished pistol, but the trigger sure needed help.

Bill
 
Bill,

I would call Taurus, but that is a useless endeavor. I've called them dozens of times trying to get answers to things, and all they ever tell you is "send it in and we'll look at it -- and, oh, by the way, we're about six weeks behind right now..." They refuse to let you actually talk to anyone who knows anything about their guns.

While I'm on a rant, I also hate the fact that no matter how much I beg I can't get them to send ANY information about what they did to the gun when they send it back. They send a sheet in the box with the gun and it has a large space for "Gunsmith's Notes", but it is always blank. The last time I sent it in, I sent a letter with it explaining the problem and the history of this particular gun and BEGGING for information about what they were going to do to try to fix the problems. Again, I got a blank sheet back.

I think I'm so mad at Taurus because I really, really wanted to like this gun...

Acme
 
My father in law called...

..me late one night really upset. He had managed to field strip his PT-111 and couldn't get it back together. I'm not a gunsmith, but I have a small collection and I'm used to field striping autos and I told him that I'd be right over and put his pistol back together for him. As I drove the 4 miles to his house, I couldn't help but chuckle a little. We had gone to the gun shop together to look at carry pistols. I knew that Glock would be the way to go. (For me.) He liked the Taurus PT-111. I told him that I had read some bad posts regarding the PT-111, but he kept saying, "But it FEELS so good, and it's less money than the Glock. (He could have easily afforded anything he wanted.) Anyway, when we left the shop, I had the Glock, he had the Taurus. When I arrived at his house that night there was no more laughing. Even with the owner's manual at my side I couldn't get the damn thing back together! It was one of the most frustrating things that has ever happened to me! The next day, he had to take it to a gunsmith to be reassembled. Now, he won't shoot it because he's afraid to field strip it for cleaning.
On the other hand, my wife has a Taurus Total Ti snub in .38 Special +P. It's a wonderful pistol that has given her NO TROUBLE in all the time she's owned it. Revolver=good, auto=bad, very bad.

Kentucky Rifle
 
Acme,

Sorry your having so much trouble with Taurus. :(

I'd suggest that you trade it in on something comparable, like a Kel-Tec P11. At this point, nothing Taurus does will make up for all the problems you've had, so get rid of the problem, and don't look back.

I've shot the P11, and it has a lighter and shorter trigger pull by far. Nice little guns, and less expensive than Taurus, with excellent customer service.

Keep in mind, that these guns are not top of the line firearms, so don't expect to put tens of thousands of rounds through one with no maintenance. They are cheap, and they break or wear out, just like anything else mechanical.

The old adage "you get what you pay for" is not far from home with firearms. :D

Good luck!


Kentucky,

I've not found the Taurus all that difficult to reassemble, but you must hold the barrel in it's forward most position, when installing the slide. Sometimes inverting the gun while replacing the slide helps locate the barrel properly. If it slips rearward, or the chamber end drops downward toward the frame at all, you will not be able to get the slide on the frame, so start over.

Another trick I've found is using a toothpick to depress the take down lever retention spring, so the lever can be pushed back into the frame and locked. My lever does not slide over it's retention spring as intended, with out excessive force!

Tell your friend to trade that Taurus in on something he will enjoy shooting. It's doing no one any good sitting in a drawer unused!

Bill
 
Wow, I don't think I've seen a thread anywhere with so many posts in agreement. If I read correctly there was only 1 positive experience with the PT111! It's to bad they went away from the older PT92 (aka Beretta clone) style, my 9mm and 380 work perfectly.

Guess if I get in the market for a compact 9mm I'll look at the Witness compacts long before the new Taurus. To bad considering how good the old style was and how good their revolvers are.
 
John,

My nephew in Denver purchased a new 357 Taurus revolver a few years ago, but had never put a round through it.

Two years ago, we took it to a range near Denver and tried it for the first time.

POI was off with factory ammo. He handed it to me to shoot, and the first thing I noticed was that the front sight blade was so far out of line with the frame, that it looked like the Leaning Tower of Piza, when sighted through the rear notch! :rolleyes:

They say that their quality control has vastly improved since then, but what I'm reading on the forums says otherwise. :(

You work for the big B?

Bill
 
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