Taurus PT 92 vs Taurus PT 1911 in 9x19mm. Which is better?

Does the Taurus PT92 have plastik parts? See here my latest experience with the Beretta 92. By the way the Berettas grip fit me well and trigger in SA is awesome.
«Yes by all means I would skip buying an plastik parts Beretta. If you want a plastik gun buy a M&P Glock or one of the miriads plastk toys. They feel like toys but ain't toys.
I happened to handle an Beretta 92. The trigger ist plastik but does not flex. Has an very good trigger pull and crisp break on SA. Very nice. But I realised the plastik trigger and would not buy just because of that.

It is getting worse. It seems the barrel is a sleeve and barrel insert. Can someone correct me on that? I am sure the barrel was a composed barrel so that means it has an metal insert surrounded with another metal. Kind of these Sig Sauer mosquito 22lr piece of s®®s. Many of the plastik tactical 22lr rifles made by other companies than Ruger have composed barrels with metal inserts and surrounded by even polymer. It is a pure sin to do that and the heck it must be unsafe even if it gets approved for sale. A little lobby here and there gets you sold any kind of crap novadays as it seems.

Correct me on that Beretta metal insert composed barrel. I am sure I saw that and I looked it up close more than once to be sure since I could not believe it at first what I saw. It is an ashame. Next time I guess Beretta will make the 92 with an metal insert plastik barrel.»
 
That what I saw there on the Beretta 92 seems to have been an Chrome lined Barrel. That may be a good idea.

Which is better. The "plastified" Beretta 92 or the Taurus PT92 stainless? Which one is the all Metall gun?
 
Been shooting handguns longer than I care to admit (and many running around have been alive), and have owned a lot of high end ones too (Baer, Brown, Wilson Combat, etc etc). I am no longer impressed by names and/or reputations.

That stated, one of my most trusted, shot, and frankly cherished pistols is a Taurus PT92AFS (pre lock, pre luggage rack). Never, ever, had a single malfunction, shoots where I point it, takes down easily, and has the safety/decock on the frame where it is supposed to be. If currency ceased to have value beyond fire starting material, it would be my most "valuable" handgun.
 
Thanks for saying that Officers Match,

However material differences (Quality in steel) may make a difference don't you agree?

I wonder which differences there are in material Quality between the Beretta 92 and the Taurus PT92 inox.
 
What about the Taurus PT1911?

I read that any 1911 has an inherently weak design such as it Needs a rebuilt after 20000 rounds.

I plan to buy an Taurus PT92 and an Taurus PT1911. Both in 9mm Luger.
Is the Beretta design an stronger and better engineered design than the 1911 designs?

Has anybody had to let "rebuild" his Taurus PT1911? After how many rounds?
 
I think "inherently weak" is a bad characterization of the 1911 design. It's in fact very strong, and can be chambered in very heavy cartridges, like the .460 Rowland and .357 magnum. The issue with the design is the parts are finely fit together with small locking surfaces. These surfaces wear, and need to be replaced and/or refit. This is typical for early 20th century designs.

The Beretta 92 design is much later, and uses bigger locking surfaces. Thus, it can go many rounds before needing a locking block refit.

I don't think the 92 is "better engineered" than the 1911, it's just an example of evolutionary design advancements. I have no doubt that in 50 years the 1911 will be readily available in stores, and the 92 will be history. The 1911, as a duty or defensive pistol, is inferior to the B92. But for many/most other pistol uses, the 1911 can do many things the B92 cannot.
 
What are we talking exactly of locking surfaces on an 1911?

I am referring me specifically to the Taurus PT1911 model and no other brands.

Is the slide wearing out? Is it an locking lug like the falling block? Is it the rails? Barrel bushing?, Barrel? Is it the Frame which wears out?
What wears out there exactly? Which parts have small locking surfaces?

Of how many rounds are we talking it Needs "rebuilt"?

Rest asure over here there is no way a gun gets spare parts or rebuilts. I may imports spare parts from the US but they may arrive only a year later. No gunsmiths are here and those who are here calling themselves "gunsmiths" are not neccesary using original parts (I heard someone say These local "gunsmiths" weld and fabricate some Irons together in order the gun runs for awhile till they are glad to see the gun shipped in again in order to Charge you again a hefty Money).
 
I can't comment on the PT1911 since I don't have one, and I don't think I've seen one in person.

However, some general comments are in order to answer your questions:

The 1911 barrel (and the Hi Power barrel, for that matter) lock into the top of the slide with a series of small lugs. If these lugs aren't fit well, only a small part of the lug surface is in contact with the recesses in the slide. During locking and unlocking, eventually these become peened. The lockup gets loose, and accuracy declines. Also, the lug on the bottom of the barrel, and the barrel link can also get loose.

The solution is generally to fit a new barrel. You can easily do this yourself with a Kart easy fit barrel and a set of barrel links from Brownells.

The amount of rounds it takes for this to happen varies widely, mostly based on the degree of proper fit of the barrel and gun.

If you really don't have support for a 1911, and don't have the desire to work on it yourself, it's the wrong gun for you. Also, if you don't need the features it offers, you're better off with a modern design. Designers engineered the flaws of the 1911 away. You'll lose the great 1911 trigger, and gilt edge accuracy possible with the design, and the excellent ergonomics. It's like having a race car....it needs more care a maintenance than a Glock/SD9VE/PT92. But it can do things those pistols can't.
 
If the 1911 is that finicky and troublesome how in the world that design got used in both world wars?
I read the military 1911 had very loose tolerances.
I wonder how often they got services/maintenance since they must have worked for many thousands of rounds.

My guess is they wouldnt have used it in war as an duty weapon if it is a piece of crap from an maintenance perspective.
 
Having owned an older Taurus PT99, if I had to choose between that and Taurus' 1911, I'd choose the PT1911. At least its made of steel (I believe forged frame and slide) and not cheap, soft alloy. Aside from my broken locking block disaster with the PT99, the nickel coating on the slide was thin and cheap and got small rust spots on it. Boy, this was irritating since I tried to keep the gun spotless and oiled.

The soft aluminum frame easily scratched. The PT99 really turned me off on all Beretta and Taurus versions of this gun - and I admit, I'm probably being unfair since I know Beretta has fixed the locking block problem in their latest generation - perhaps Taurus as well, but I don't know that. I loved that PT99 when I bought it new - I thought it was the coolest gun I ever saw. But after I saw how freaking soft the frame was, and my experience with it breaking after owning it for 6 months, plus the rust issues - I clicked my heals in joy when I got $150 in trade toward a S&W 659. I couldn't ditch it fast enough! I still have the 659 - it will outlast that crappy PT99 by several hundred years!
 
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Thanks Skans for sharing.

So the slide of the PT92 is nickel plated? I understood they are making them novadays with real stainless steel material. The Barrel I am unsure of which material it is made of. As I understood it is not real stainless steel.

On the Internet that PT92 has an fairly good Reputation.

I used to Chat on Taurus Webpage with their representatives but every Agent tells you a different Story about which materials are made in their guns (if they are not telling you frankly they are not allowed to tell you that info).

The Frame I knew already is made of aluminum. Obviously that will scratch. However as well will do Polymer framed guns. I hate those Plastik guns since they are to ligth (muzzle flip from 9mm Luger).

The S&W 659 honestly I can not find on the Gallery of Guns Webpage. They seems not to be made anymore. Nice guns though.
 
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Here a Little update on materials used by Taurus on their guns (according to their Chat agents).

PT92 stainless steel:
Barrel: carbon steel stainless plated
slide: real stainless steel
Frame: aluminum
controls+trigger: metal injected propietary.

PT1911 stainless steel:
Barrel: real stainless steel
Frame: real stainless steel
slide: real stainless steel
controls: metal injected propietary
Trigger: real stainless steel.

Who has faith who believes!
 
some newer beretta triggers are plastic coated steel. They are steel inside. The only wholly plastic part is the recoil spring guide rod.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Yes the never Berettas are plastified guns.

I had for awhile (~1 year) an Taurus 970 stainless Revolver.
That material was most likely carbon steel painted with stainless matte paint. I believe they call that stainless matte finish.

Howevever it never rusted. Were it holstered the matte finish weared off but it never rusted. The finish easily got scratched from Walking in brush.
Was a nice gun but showed a few tool marks and was with it's 6.5" Barrel incredible front heavy. It worked flawlessly.
It was an 22LR and soon I started relaoding&casting I got rid of it.
 
I understood they are making them novadays with real stainless steel material.
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They might be - mine was a much older model from 1989. If I were seriously considering buying a new PT92, I'd look into the following: 1) does it have the updated locking block like the Beretta; 2) Is the slide stainless steel, or nickel plated; 3) What alloy do they actually use for the frame. Some of the Aluminum alloys available today are much better than what was available in '89, but that doesn't necessarily mean Taurus has upgraded the material used in their frames.
 
If the 1911 is that finicky and troublesome how in the world that design got used in both world wars?
I read the military 1911 had very loose tolerances.
I wonder how often they got services/maintenance since they must have worked for many thousands of rounds.

My guess is they wouldnt have used it in war as an duty weapon if it is a piece of crap from an maintenance perspective. [\QUOTE]

The 1911 is not troublesome or finicky. Like all designs from 100+ years ago, it's much more maintenance intensive than current designs. Consider a Ford Model T from 1911 compared to a 2016 Toyota Camry.

The US military 1911s had loose tolerances compared to match fit 1911s of today. They worked fine. Yes, each unit had an armorer who worked on the guns when they broke. Pistols were sent back for depot level repairs when needed.

Also consider that most military pistols are shot 50 times per year for qualifications, if that. It's no wonder that many of these pistols lasted for 50 years in use, with only a depot level rebuild.

Again, compared to other pistols of its era, like the Luger, Roth-Steyr, or Ruby, the 1911 had endured because of its design excellence. But no military issues it today.
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yes Skans I would be annoyed as well.

Seems in the photo the Frame has rust spots as well. But that can not be if it is aluminum.

I don't know.
But the Taurus rep on Chat told me the PT1911 is real stainless steel Barrel, slide, trigger and Frame. Only the controls are MIM parts.
That is what attracts me a bit to the Taurus PT1911.

First I will try the PT92 in 9mm Luger for awhile see how it endures and then next year decide on the PT1911. I hate rust as the pestilence as well so I painted my blued guns with Brownells clear matter Aluma Hyde II gun paint. Is a viable solution since they don't rust if properly painted with that (that is the "stainless" solution of the poor man).

Obviously we all agree on the following: We all would have rather an SIG, S&W, Colt, Ruger real stainless gun. But in my case it is just out of Price range considering here in Southamerica they turn out to be 3 times more expensive then in the USA.
 
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