Taurus Judge 2.5 or 3 inch .410?

44 AMP said:
I find it difficult to believe the difference of 0.176" (max lengths) is making that much of a difference. Are you shooting the same bullet from the Schofield and the .45 Colt??

Always consider the possibility that your results might just be a quirk of your gun and the ammo used and might not apply to anyone else.

I have read people saying they got "good" or at least acceptable accuracy shooting .45 Colt from their combo pistols, despite the long bullet jump.

That was not the case for me, but its not impossible.
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Yes, I shot the same bullets. The accuracy improvement was most noticeable with the Ruger Redhawk I have, while for the Judge the only .45 Colt load that was more accurate than Schofield was with a 250gr full wadcutter.

I've pretty much gone straight to using .45 Schofield for all standard pressure loadings and save the Colt brass for higher power loadings for the Redhawk or for round ball loads.
 
One of the few joys of the modern era is being able to get brass and often ammo for rounds that had been long out of production but are being made again now (or were before the panicdemic...:rolleyes:).

I've often read the Schoefield is an accurate cartridge, but never having had a gun that needed it, I never tried it. In that regard, its like the .44 Special, for me. I have guns that can use it, but none that need it, so I never bothered to get any (or much, I think I have a partial box of .44Spl somewhere, that someone gave me, ....:D)
 
The .45 Colt is much closer to .44 Magnum in terms of case capacity, yet is far lower in pressure meaning less powder has to be used. This means there's more air inside the case and that leads to inconsistent ignition. When we're sticking to standard pressures for the .45, the Schofield has the advantage as it has less air in the case than .45 Colt will and that I believe improves efficiency.

This dynamic is only present in .45 Colt because it is effectively a Magnum caliber in terms of case capacity, but is loaded to pressures that are even lower than that of the Special calibers.
 
The original loading for the .45 Colt was 40gr of black powder, in the original balloon head cases. Zero airspace. Modern solid head cases won't hold quite that much, somewhere around 38gr, I think.

The .45 Colt is much closer to .44 Magnum in terms of case capacity,
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I would say it the other way, as the .45 Colt is much, much older than the .44 Magnum, but that's just me. :rolleyes:
 
Has anyone ever tried loading a 45 Colt bullet in the end of a 410 case, with maybe wads or filler between the powder charge and the bullet. That would reduce the jump between the case and the forcing cone.
 
Its called a slug. :D

And, it is a respectable little beast, fired from a shotgun. The .410 slug weighs 1/4 oz (approx 110gr) and has a listed MV (shotgun long barrel) of 1800fps. (Winchester 3" shell)

The problem, in the combo guns is, its a .410 slug. In order to fit inside the .410 shell, the actual diameter is something like .39 caliber or so.

Rather undersize for a .45 caliber bore, wouldn't you say??

as to putting an actual .45 caliber bullet in "the end" of a .410 shell??

I'm thinking that's not going to work. First off, the .45 bullet might split the .410 case, and even if it doesn't its it going to bulge it quite a bit.

And that is the real problem, .45 bullet plus the thickness of the .410 case isn't going to FIT in the cylinder. Or, at least not any cylinder bored the usual way.
 
Cylinder throats are bored to be a very close fit to the bullet. With normal construction, I doubt there is enough room in the throat to take the bullet AND the thickness of the .410 case. And there isn't any room in the throat for the .410 case to expand and release a .45 caliber bullet, either.

The .410 works in the combo guns because it is seriously subcaliber, so there is room in the .45 caliber cylinder throat for the casing to fit and open up when fired.

ALL that goes away if you put a .45 caliber bullet in a .410 case.

You are welcome to try it, but I don't think it will work.
 
I consider the cylinder length to be irrelevant. Because, for me, it is, as I don't have any .45/.410 revolvers.

What I do have is .45/.410 Contender barrels. 10" with the "straightener" tube. (which is ONLY for use with shot, not bullets).

The barrel takes the 3" .410, so no difference in cylinder length, no cylinder gap, and, as far as I know, no difference from the standard .45Colt barrel, other than being cut to allow the .410 shell length and the "straightener" tube.

While it was fun, and occasionally useful as a .410, it just didn't shoot .45 Colt ammo very well. Not as well as my Ruger Blackhawk did.

eventually, I got a .45 Colt only barrel for my Contender and it shoots fine, as good or better than my revolvers.

I put the difference down to the amount of "freebore" the .410 version has compared to standard "single caliber" gun's barrels.

IF there is a velocity difference due to that, I don't know, have never chronographed the guns against each other, and even if I did, it would be inconclusive.
 
I have an update on my son’s Governor.
45 Colt 225 Lever Revolution will not stabilize from this revolver which really surprised me?? I had high hopes for this load in the Governor.
We usually pick an old drum to ventilate for target practice, shoot a hole and aim for the hole (15yds). Those 225 Flex Tips rip one hell of a hole when they land sideways! Almost every other round would keyhole!
Now the Sellier & Bellot 45ACP 230gr hp I had grouped very nice, maybe better than anything else we’ve tried so far.
Head scratcher.
 
I pick up the Judge today - only purpose is snake control at 5 yards or so. I'm thinking it will do just fine for that, but I'm still going to load 45 Colt with cast slugs for it anyway, just for the grins and giggles.
 
TruthTellers, don't do it, man. If you must do it, buy one used. I am sure you can find someone disappointed in their Judge willing to sell it cheap.

Let's think logically- if you want extra performance, load up tungsten shot. It's 1.6 times more dense than lead. Increase 2 shot sizes and get the same performance as lead and a lot more pellets. You won't even need 3" shells, it's so dense. Roll crimping .410 is very much like reloading metallic cartridge. You measure your powder, put a wad over it, stuff in some fiber buttons (because tungsten is so dense, you need to take up space), fill it with shot, put an over shot card on top, run the roll crimp tool over the shell in your electric drill. Done.

"Oh! But tungsten is so expensive!" people say. "Whatever happened to your line about when your life is on the line?"

The great thing about the T/C Contender .45/.410 barrel was Ebay. We all got one, used. We all shot a couple boxes of shells through it, we all passed it along to the next guy. It was fun for a box of shells or two, then never got used again. That's my experience, at least.

Now, a good .22 field pistol? Stuff like that I still toss in my pocket, decades after I bought it.
 
"Oh! But tungsten is so expensive!" people say. "Whatever happened to your line about when your life is on the line?"
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Don't know about the rest of you, but I'm not well heeled enough to spend the money for tungsten to shoot snakes, or rats. Never met any of those, or heard of any who could survive lead shot but would fall to tungsten.

Tungsten .410 ammo is going from $6 to $8 PER ROUND.

IF regular lead .410 shot won't do it, you don't need expensive tungsten, you need a bigger shotgun.

Nothing that ought to be shot with a .410 puts my life on the line, not even venomous snakes native to North America.
 
Like all shot, the pellets are inside a plastic wad. What does plastic do to a forcing cone and rifling? Nothing.

I'm handloading tungsten for about $2 a round (20 gauge pheasant loads).

Most people are not buying rifled barrel revolvers that shoot shotgun shells for any sensible reason, as I see no sensible reason behind the thing.

That's the point of my $5 a shell argument. People choosing .410 for "home defense" are throwing away $500. What's another $50 for undeniably superior ammunition?

For those who don't know, tungsten shot is insanely superior to lead shot. It's not even close. It's most commonly used by elite turkey hunters, who are switching to .410 and shooting out to 60 yards now.

If you want a shotgun, use a shotgun. If you want a revolver, get a good one. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
 
People choosing .410 for "home defense" are throwing away $500. What's another $50 for undeniably superior ammunition?
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Not sure I can agree with that. First point, the guns are NOT .410s, they are .45 Colt made to allow the firing of .410 shells as well.

Won't argue about the superiority of tungsten shot over lead shot, but I will argue about the superiority of any shot in a .410 being superior to a .45 Colt bullet for personal defense.

Even at today's prices, .45 Colt doesn't cost $40 for FIVE rounds.

And I doubt the guys shooting turkeys with .410 tungsten shot are doing it with a Judge....:rolleyes:
 
Well, we had a great time with ours today.

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It's a bare bones bottom of the line revolver with a simple finish...and it worked perfectly. We practiced at snake range, one hand DA only shooting like we were controlling the dog from going after a snake. Ammo used was Winchester #6, new and some old, as well as Federal "Personal Defense 410 Handgun" ammo...5 000 Buck pellets. No, this is not supposed to be anyone's self defense sidearm for anything but snakes, but hey, you never know.

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# 6 shot spread out, but rapid fire follow ups are easy, so the chance of blanketing Scaley George with shot is pretty good.

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000 Buck was interesting. Note holes in the center of the target.

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All in all, it does what we want, it's fun and easy to shoot, recoil is extremely manageable even with the "self defense" loads. We had a good time, and I think it will be just fine as snake medicine.
 
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