Taurus 500 S&W Magnum for Black bear hunting??

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Oregongundude

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I was at Sportsman's Warehouse today watching a guy buying a 500 S&W magnum to hunt black bear here in Oregon. I thought it may be a little overkill because most of the black bears here in the northwest range between 200 and 400 pounds and can be taken down with a .357 magnum in most cases.

I asked him why he needed such a big gun and he said he wanted to make sure if he shot a bear that it would go down. I was wondering to myself if he could even hit the bear with this revolver if he needed too.

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I guess I couldn't argue with his logic there. I was just wondering does anyone have one of these and how's the recoil on this Revolver? I can't imagine it having a soft recoil. I noticed the rounds are quite expensive $30 to $50 for 25 rounds.

:)
 
If the guy reloads, he can push 525 grain bullets, at between 1100-1200 fps, and, they kill like the hammer of thor. Bears are incredibly tough, and, if you don't believe me, go read some bear hunting stories, here,

http://www.buffalobore.com/hunts/Default.htm

Also should give some perspective on how effective 440 grain, 500 caliber bullets, even at 1000 fps, are. They don't bounce off game animals...

There is also Jack Huntington's cartridge, the 500 JRH, which is probably soon to be copied by S&W, as the 500 special. It can be fired out of the 500 S&W, and, with that size gun, will recoil around 44 magnum levels, while putting out a 440 grain bullet, at 1100 fps.

I haven't shot the Taurus, but, my gun is essentially the same cartridge, but .510, holds more powder.

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These guns kill about the same as a 375 H&H rifle.

S
 
The 44 mag is from all I've been able to determine is about twice as effective as the 357. The recoil of the 44 mag can be handled by most and therefore the bullet placement is more likely to be good. It works well for deer and black bear.Bigger than the 44 mag ?? Not for me.
 
Some of the coastal blacks up there can exceed 400 pounds.

I went to college in Tacoma and on one backpacking trip, I saw what must have been an 800 pound black bear. I thought somebody had pitched a flat-black hairy dome tent that was 5 foot tall in the middle of a clearing, then it started moving. This was in the Olympic mountains on the peninsula of Washington state.

He was fat and happy and at minimum weighed in at 700 pounds.

For a hunt where you want to control the fact that 1 shot downs your prey, I can see validity in all the supermagnums... 460, 475, 500, 454, 445, 45-70. They all have their place in hunting supermag revolvers.

I am surprised that he bought the Taurus for this purpose, though. The cylinder on the Taurus is a bit shorter than the S&W if I remember correctly, and the heaviest bullets cannot be used in it. Sorta like the difference between a Smith 629 and a Ruger Redhawk in 44mag... The redhawk can chamber 330gr bullets behind massive charges, while the Smith is pushing the envelope at 300gr at a reduced charge. The Smith X-Frame is the best gun on the market for that 500 caliber.

At some point, I could see myself ending up with a Freedom Arms or MRI BFR chambered in something silly one day...:) We each get our kicks however we like to.
 
With heavy for caliber bullets, at 1100 fps, the 500 is about 25% more recoil then a 44 magnum. The 1.6 inch cases gives you excellent bullet velocity, at low pressure. More a push, then a 44 snap.

The Taurus weighs 68 oz. With 440's at 1100 fps, it recoils at 28 ft-lbs. That's about 8 more then heavy 44.

At 1600 fps, it recoils at 52 ft per sec.

Gives a new definition of mild to wild.

S
 
Better too much than too little! Should work and make an exit hole. Shoulda known Mr. Socrates would be drawn to this big bore thread like a moth to a flame. :D Love that .510 SA man. Only problem with that (taurus RB) for hunting is the porting could possibly damage your hearing with just one or a few shots, unless you wear some protection in the field.
 
The 44 mag is from all I've been able to determine is about twice as effective as the 357.
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You mean the 44Mag actually kills the animal twice?:confused: What do you mean by your statement? In the right hands using the right load, the 357Mag is perfectly adequate for Deer and on the light side for Black Bear but still feasible. The key is using the right load. There have been many failures with the 357Mag in the hunting fields but most of them can be linked to poor bullet choices as the 357Mag is primarily a defensive cartridge. The 44Mag is undoubtedly more effective on game but twice as effective? How so?
 
The cylinder on the Taurus is a bit shorter than the S&W if I remember correctly, and the heaviest bullets cannot be used in it. Sorta like the difference between a Smith 629 and a Ruger Redhawk in 44mag...
Click to expand...
or like the difference between smith 629 and a raging bull .44 :)

.357mag a good SD round and works for deer hunting (with a proper load and decent barrel length) but I would never use it for bear hunting. I don’t think it's too much of an overstatement to say that .44mag is twice as effective as a .357mag as a hunting cartrige...
 
cje1980, this was a result of years of research about handguns and hunting. You should read Elmer Keith's " Sixguns" for a start . His research lead to development of the 44 mag. There was a very interesting post on a forum not too long ago , written by a guide .He has seen HUNDREDS of black bear shot with various handgun cartridges. His conclusions are that to be effective they have to be .40 caliber minimum. Effective means that with a good hit they don't go more than a few yards . That means for an auto 10mm [40S&W doesn't have the penetration] or 41 mag for revolvers. This is actual shots on hundreds of bear , no gelatin, no theory !!!...African hunting with rifle also shows that caliber makes a difference and to stop a charging 'big five' animal they prefer . 40 or bigger.....I'll take my 44 mag!:)
 
I went with a friend to shoot his two new pistols. Both were S&W XVR 8" ported models.

The first was a 460SW with a 2x scope. It was controllable and compared to a smaller 44 mag. I shot about 20 rounds with it and enjoyed the power and the accuracy of it.

The second was a 500SW with just the factory sights. I shot 3 rounds and gave it back. :(
I shoot to have fun and this was not fun. It hurt my hands like my snub does with full load 357mags and I was pointing at the sky when I was finished. I also had a stinging sensation on the left side of my face (I am right handed) each time I fired it.
But it was fun to watch when my friend shot it as flames shot out the barrel.

I wouldn't of thought there would be THAT much difference between the two cartridges.

One nice thing with the 460 is, that you can also shoot the 454 and 45 long colt. If I found one at a steal I would be very tempted.
 
Guns like that S&W look like caricatures of regular guns. I for the life of me can't figure how they found a market. If you really need more than a 454, say, why not just use a rifle? Best -
 
Well 454 stops with 360 grain bullets.

Larger caliber, and heavier bullets, historically, just are MUCH more effective. The precedent for this is the considerable increase in killing and stopping power when bullet weight goes up from the 300 grain H&H loads, to the 500 grain 458 Lott/NE 450 loads.

One kills well, the other stops. While we can't get a real stopper in a pistol, the 525 grain bullets, at 1550 fps, or even at 1100 fps, will kill like a 375, and, will smash a big, straight hole, through most any game animal.

454's penetrate about 38" of Cape buffalo, with 350 grain LFNs. 475 and 500's will do near 60", or more, with less chance of being deflected from target line, with 420 grain, and 525 grain bullets. The difference between 3 feet of penetration in a DGA, and 5 or 6 feet, or more, is HUGE, if it's coming at you. Think of a charging brown bear. It weight about as much as 4-5 pro football defensive linemen, and, runs about 3 times as fast, with giant claws, and jaws, and, it's probably smarter then the linemen put together, as well.;) To kill it, you need a big, long, hole, through vital areas, breaking bones. Not to mention you have to get through it's armour plating, of hair, mud, very thick skin, inside fat layer, and bones. Brown bears have taken successive shots from 375's. Two around here took 11 rounds of 375 H&H to finally go down. Another on Buffalobores site took a round from a 375, and from a 458 Lott, and took off running. My point is simply sometimes, you need as much gun as you can get.

Also, the power of some of these huge hollowpoints is something to see.

Friend shot a good sized deer, in the ham, going forward. NON-LETHAL shot placement. Deer should have, and with most calibers, would have run off, and recovered. The 400 grain, Hornady XTP hollowpoint expanded, and cut a huge hole through the ham. Didn't catch an artery, or anything, but, the deer ran 30 yards, and died. VERY STRANGE.

Others have noticed a killing power in these huge caliber revolvers that find their only precedent in the same factor occuring in rifle calibers.

Using the 454 as an upper limit denies about 100 years of ballistics, in large game hunting, that has clearly shown, that between 1000 fps, and 2500 fps, there is a HUGE difference in effect created by increasing bullet weight from 300 grains to 500, or more, grains.

I'd think of the 454 as the 375 H&H of pistols, with the 475 and 500 as the 450 Nitro Express 2, and the 500 Nitro Express of the pistol world..

If you have a choice, why not get the heavier caliber? Recoil and expense come to mind.

However, your initial strategy, that if the 454 won't get it done, you need a rifle, is sound...

Keep in mind, I was on the edge of the heavy 45 colt evolution, from about 1980 on, and, have one of the first
built 45 Colt/Linebaugh/Sevilles, capable, of killing Cape buffalo, etc.
Sevillebarrel2copy.jpg

Sevillecopy.jpg



Ross Seyfried did that with a sister gun to mine, and, his
response was to ask for the 475, or 500, and, to design the 585 Nyati affordable stopping rifle. I think that says it all, right there.

Something about having 1400 pounds of cape buffalo charging from 25 yards, and having no place to go, and having it die about 2 feet from you, after soaking up 6 shots of 345 grain, 1550 fps 45 colt rounds, that makes you think you might be lucky, as well as good, and, the next time, you might NOT be so lucky.

S
 
Thanks Terminator: :D
Intresting story behind the gun. It was supposed to have been Ross Seyfried's, according to Linebaugh, at the time(1980-82).
That story changed 15 years later. I bought the seville for 325 dollars, and John L put a match grade cylinder on the gun, not blued, and, likewise the barrel. I believe it was also align bored, since it does shoot about 3" @ 100 yards, or less, depending upon the load and shooter.

We ran loads well over 454 casull levels in that gun, 350's at 1550 fps, with H-110, for a bit, but, with the stock grips, it wasn't fun. At this level of recoil, the gun would come out of sync, near every shot. To fire the next round, you had to move the cylinder with your index finger, cock it, and fire again. So, Seyfried didn't put that in his article, but, his gun did the same thing, as he was being charged by an angry cape buffalo. He got off 5 shots in 2 seconds, doing that with his finger, because he HAD too.:eek:

I asked John L to fix it, but, last time I paid 80 dollars, plus shipping, to have him tell me,

'it must be your hold!'

Nice note, John L.
:rolleyes:

I took the gun to Jack Huntington to be reblued, and, he not only reblued it, but put the fantastic grips on it, and,
finally, after 24 years, the timing problem is fixed.

It's number 25 from John L., and, it's one of the best Sevilles ever made, and Sevilles have one of the best actions every made, for SA. Trigger about 2 pounds, or less, action like butter...

GREAT GUN.

The grips Huntington made are fantastic, since they are a bit longer, and wider in the right places, for my hands.

Still, my go to gun is now the 475, or .510 maximum. The 454/45 colt was the best we could do, at that time in history, and, it's probably adequate for 99% of the things I'd ever do with a handgun. However, heavy for caliber hollowpoints seem to stop at 260 grains, and, I just love those Hornady 325 and 400 grain ,475 HPs.

Wonder what 510 caliber HPS are around for the Maximum???

S
 
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I asked him why he needed such a big gun and he said he wanted to make sure if he shot a bear that it would go down. I was wondering to myself if he could even hit the bear with this revolver if he needed too.
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That's like asking dirty harry why he needs a 44 magnum.

Carry the most powerful gun you are comfortable with.

Socrates, brings forth an interesting bit of information about penetration. 454 Casull handguns penetrate less than custom 475's because the rifling twist is inadequate to stabilize the bullet properly in game. Go with a faster twist barrel, and pressures increase beyond that which the gun is designed to handle. If you look at momentum, and sectional density, the 454 is close to the 475 and the 500.

The reason most 9mm pistols use a 1-10" twist when most 357 revolvers use 1-18" twist is because the 124gr. FMJ does not penetrate human beings sufficiently if understabilized. What the 454 needs is more twist, but then the velocity will disappear and all you'll have is a slightly hotter 45 Colt.

Think about it: Similar power, similar sectional density, but half the penetration. It must be the RPMs.
 
918v
Close...but, it's BULLET WEIGHT. :D

Reason I use 525's in .510, and 420's in 475 is barrel twist, you are right.
When you get too heavy for caliber, that does become a problem, or, too short a barrel. 700's in .500 revolvers. are questionable, for that reason.

Frankly, the 45 caliber bullets need to be 500 grains, for the kind of penetration you need on bears, or big dangerous game. NE 450 guys have known that for near 100 years, and, slowing the bullet down does NOT solve the problem. The 45 case is just too small for that big a bullet, so, go up in caliber, or, go to a longer case. I think it makes an excellent argument to load 500 grain bullets, at 1100 fps, in the 460 S&W, though I haven't tried this myself. Also, the 45-70, in a revolver, while heavy, also makes more sense then the 454. The 454 is kind of absurd, since it's SAAMI spec is around 60k pressure, and,
the 44 magnum is 40K. The extra pressure does little to really increase velocity, and mainly increases recoil.
the 45-70 could use .458 bullets, at low pressure, and get the same velocity, with MUCH less recoil.

What I like about the big cases, is they get good ballistics, using lower pressures, 44k and under, without the wear and tear of 454/500/S&W/460 S&W pressures. Cut top straps, and barrels are common in S&W revolvers for these calibers, and, the only gun that seems really up to heavy 454 use is the FA 83, designed just for that cartridge.

Last time I looked at Gary Reeder's site, he was blogging about necking down one of the S&W cases, to 45, so he could the same ballistics, or more, then the 454, with much less recoil...

S
 
Necking down gas been extensively tested by Seyfried and he got nothing. That's right, nothing. No additional velocity.

As far a s bullet weight goes, there is hardly any difference in power between a 360gr @1500 and a 420gr. @1300. The latter penetrates twice as deep as the former. Why?
 
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